Activism Discussion: Re: Larry Lizard, WTC7, And 3rd-rate Minds ...

Re: Larry Lizard, WTC7, And 3rd-rate Minds ...
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MadKingGeorge
2007-05-23 10:10:11 EST
On May 23, 2:48 am, "John P."
<JohnP_Da_Evil_...@Why*Am*I*Such*A*NAZI*COW*.com> wrote:
> "MadKingGeorge" <tothemoonalice2...@yahoo.com> wrote in a message
>
> > It`s that this "gummint", or more precisely, the *Bush Crime Family*
> > controlled "gummint" is........hands down........THE MOST corrupt, and
> > criminal administration in US history and has the MO to do it, or
> > allow others to.
>
> Yet, none of the evidence indicates they did.

Except all the evidence indicates they *did*


Al Dykes
2007-05-23 10:55:10 EST
In article <1179929410.945452.84010@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
MadKingGeorge <tothemoonalice2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On May 23, 2:48 am, "John P."
><JohnP_Da_Evil_...@Why*Am*I*Such*A*NAZI*COW*.com> wrote:
>> "MadKingGeorge" <tothemoonalice2...@yahoo.com> wrote in a message
>>
>> > It`s that this "gummint", or more precisely, the *Bush Crime Family*
>> > controlled "gummint" is........hands down........THE MOST corrupt, and
>> > criminal administration in US history and has the MO to do it, or
>> > allow others to.
>>
>> Yet, none of the evidence indicates they did.
>
>Except all the evidence indicates they *did*
>


Most of the claims made by Truthys have, as a foundation, misquotes, and lies.

There was no molten steel on the WTC pile. All reports are
second-hand.

Many thousands of people saw some aspect of the 4 hijacked jets.

All the quotyes of NY Firemen that seem to claim man-made explosives
are out of context or edited to remove information that contradicts
the trythy agenda.

"explosion" is just a good word for loud noise. It doesn't mean that
man-made explosives was the cause.

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

MoronLocator
2007-05-23 19:50:48 EST

"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
> Most of the claims made by Truthys have, as a foundation, misquotes, and
> lies.
>
> There was no molten steel on the WTC pile. All reports are
> second-hand.

Who did the study that ultimately proves it wasn't molten steel , moron?
Are those second-hand reports plants by the terrorists or are they lsimply
liars in your view, kook?

>
> Many thousands of people saw some aspect of the 4 hijacked jets.

The Aircraft were obviously jacked, kook.


>
> All the quotyes of NY Firemen that seem to claim man-made explosives
> are out of context or edited to remove information that contradicts
> the trythy agenda.
>


Not all, mother-fucking, kook.



> "explosion" is just a good word for loud noise. It doesn't mean that
> man-made explosives was the cause.

You genius!

So now when your husband farts in public he will be arrested.

> --
> a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
> Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001



Al Dykes
2007-05-23 20:54:43 EST
In article <vr45i.1678$DS2.1256@newsfe12.lga>,
MoronLocator <yeah@right.net> wrote:
>
>"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
>> Most of the claims made by Truthys have, as a foundation, misquotes, and
>> lies.
>>
>> There was no molten steel on the WTC pile. All reports are
>> second-hand.
>
>Who did the study that ultimately proves it wasn't molten steel , moron?
>Are those second-hand reports plants by the terrorists or are they lsimply
>liars in your view, kook?
>
>>

There are no known eye witnesses for ANY MOLTEN metal on the pile.
There are no measurements that show temps high enough, either.



--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

John P.
2007-05-24 02:23:50 EST
"MoronLocated" <yeah@righthere.net> wrote in a message

>> All the quotyes of NY Firemen that seem to claim man-made explosives
>> are out of context or edited to remove information that contradicts
>> the trythy agenda.

> Not all, mother-fucking, kook.

Nice refutation. I particularly like the way you didn't provide any of the
actual quotes to show how his claim was wrong. The fact that you didn't
provide any quotes or support for your disagreement is clear proof that you
are right!

I have no doubt you will win some type of major kook award for your
achievement.



Al Dykes
2007-05-24 08:47:26 EST
In article <vr45i.1678$DS2.1256@newsfe12.lga>,
MoronLocator <yeah@right.net> wrote:
>
>"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
>> Most of the claims made by Truthys have, as a foundation, misquotes, and
>> lies.
>>
>> There was no molten steel on the WTC pile. All reports are
>> second-hand.
>
>Who did the study that ultimately proves it wasn't molten steel , moron?
>Are those second-hand reports plants by the terrorists or are they lsimply
>liars in your view, kook?
>
>>
>> Many thousands of people saw some aspect of the 4 hijacked jets.
>
>The Aircraft were obviously jacked, kook.
>
>
>>
>> All the quotyes of NY Firemen that seem to claim man-made explosives
>> are out of context or edited to remove information that contradicts
>> the trythy agenda.
>>
>
>
>Not all, mother-fucking, kook.
>
>





Here's a bit of fraud by someone that uses "truth" a lot. Many 911
web sites, http://911review.com/coverup/oralhistories.html for one)
have this quote;

"you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south
tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten
explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was."
Craig Carlsen -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 8] ...

The sites never provide a link to the original testmony to see the
entire quote;

"you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south
tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten
explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. WE REALIZED
LATER AFTER TALKING AND FINDING OUT THAT IT WAS THE FLOORS
COLLAPSING TO WHERE THE PLANE HAD HIT.

Source:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110505.PDF


Many Truthy sites have this quote from a firemen. This
URL, for example; http://www.911lies.org/fire_fighters_911_wtc_tapes.html

"It was like a professional demolition where they set the charges on
certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'."
- NYC Paramedic Daniel Rivera

The Truthies edited Rivera's text to obscure the fact that Rivera
knew it was just syuff collapsing.

Q: HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS COMING DOWN
A: THAT NOISE IT WAS NOISE
Q: WHAT DID YOU HEAR WHAT DID YOU SEE
A: IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE.
AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL
DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN
FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR POP POP POP POP
POP THAVS EXACTLY WHAT BECAUSE THOUGHT
IT WASTHAT WHEN HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE
THAVS WHEN SAWTHE BUILDING COMING DOWN
Q: WHAT DID YOU DO
A: RUN MOST OF THE PEOPLE RAN INTO THE

Source:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110035.PDF


Here is the page of official testimony for about 500 first responders.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html

You can check lots of trythy quotes here, and if the Truty site says
something different, it's not impossible to contact any of them and
verify quote.

I first came across these fraud edited NYFD quotes on Jones' "peer
reviewed" 911 site. (there are more misleadingly edited quotes
there). One task of peer review is fact checking. It's clear that the
site is bullshit.

That's enough of the fine people in NYFD and EMS. Here are more;

------------------------------------------------------------

Many sites have quotes similar to this;

Danielle O'Brien commenting on how air traffic
controllers thought Flight 77 was a military plane based on
its maneuverability;
http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/aerobatics.html

but it leaves out the end of the statement,
"... you don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe."

My point isn't that the quote is goldplate accurate,
it's that the Truthies have edited pertenant info out,
not told us, and not given URLs to sources.


----------------------------------------------------------

Loose Change quotes the coroner, Wally Miller,
as seeing no bodies or blood the day of Flight 93's crash;
over the next several weeks Miller goes on to identify 12
passengers "using mostly dental records."[31]

http://www.postgazette.com/headlines/20011003crash1003p3.asp

------------------------------------------------------

You.ll often find transcripts of witness statements used on 9/11 sites. Here.s one used to support a .controlled demolition at the WTC argument, for instance.:

A description of what appeared to be a ring of explosions was also given by Deputy Commissioner Thomas Fitzpatrick, who said: "We looked up at the [south tower] . . . . All we saw was a puff of smoke coming from about 2 thirds of the way up . . . . It looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building. . . . My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV."
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4131

Convincing? Looks that way, but then that.s because you.re not reading the original. Where Fitzpatrick says he doesn.t recall thinking he saw explosions at all, and offers an alternative explanation, but mysteriously that.s been edited out:

We looked up at the building straight up, we were that close. All we saw was a puff of smoke coming from about 2 thirds of the way up. Some people thought it was an explosion. I don't think I remember that. I remember seeing, it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building. I assume now that that was either windows starting to collapse like tinsel or something. Then the building started to come down. My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Fitzpatrick_Tom.txt

You always need to look at the complete transcript, then, and the 9/11 Transcripts Blog is designed to help you do just that. Interesting transcripts are highlighted regularly, there.s a search engine to look for quotes, and links to help you find out more. Visit it here.


----------------------------------------------------------



There are quotes like thisinterview of chief flight instructor Marcel
Bernard focusing on the weaknesses of Hani Hanjour's flying skills
when he took

Flight Academy] Staff members characterized Mr. Hanjour as polite,
meek and very quiet. But most of all, the former employee said,
they considered him a very bad pilot. "I'm still to this day amazed
that he could have flown into the Pentagon," the former employee
said. "He could not fly at all.


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hanjour.html

It fails to clarify Bernard's expert opinion on Hanjour's ability to
hit the Pentagon. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that
[hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a
building and hit it."


http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/deceptions/nynewsday_sep23.html

-------------------------



http://www.911lies.org/fire_fighters_911_wtc_tapes.html


---------

My favorite example of how these conspiracy theorists such as the guys
behind Loose Change selectively edit information in order to get the
desired conclusion is the CNN interview with the guy outside the
Pentagon right after the plane hit. The guy said (and I'm
paraphrasing) "It was a red and blue plane, clearly a United Jet, and
it crashed into the side of the Pentagon. It looked like a missile
when it was coming toward the building and there was a giant explosion
when I saw the plane hit the building." The conspiracy theorists edit
out everything except for "It looked like a missile" and use that as
absolute proof that a missile and not a plane hit the Pentagon.

-----------


I've been asking for months about where this 35 seconds of video came
from. I'd like to know what the Truthies edited out, given the above.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3060923273573302287

-----------




Home
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The 911 Zogby Poll
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Quotes

.I saw a flash flash flash [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building?.--Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory

Now the WHOLE QUOTE without the taking out of context...

I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-leve] flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.

Q.: Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?

A: No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too.

I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever.

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/Gregory_Stephen.txt

Let me guess why they left that important part out..

.t was [like a] professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'."--Paramedic Daniel Rivera

SO WE WERE PRETTY MUCH-MOST OF THE WORKERS WERE INSIDE THIS BUILDING. I LIKE SAID, I DON'T KNOW IF ITS FIVE WORLD TRADE CENTER OR FOUR WORLD TRADE CENTER. MOST OF THEM WERE IN THE BUILDING BECAUSE THE CHIEF OR THE CAPTAIN SAID IF YOU WANT YOU CAN STAY INSIDE THAT BUILDING. BUT I DIDN'T FEEL SAFE BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS TERRORIST ATTACK SO I WAS SCARED. EVERY TIME YOU HEAR PLANE EVERYONE WOULD RUN. SO I PRETTY MUCH STOOD AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE. I WOULD SEE TRIAGE, BUT I WAS PRETTY MUCH IN BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS.

THEN THAT'S WHEN-I KEPT ON WALKING CLOSE TO THE SOUTH TOWER, AND THAT'S WHEN THAT BUILDING COLLAPSED.

Q: HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS COMING DOWN?

A: THAT NOISE .IT WAS NOISE.

Q: WHAT DID YOU HEAR? WHAT DID YOU SEE?

A: IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE. AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS-DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR "POP, POP, POP, POP, POP"? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT-BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS THAT WHEN I HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE, THAT'S WHEN I SAW THE BUILDING COMING DOWN.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110035.PDF

First, notice he and everyone else was scared of TERRORISTS. What do TERRORIST DO? So it's not unreasonable for someone who is thinking TERRORIST to hear the sound of huge concrete floors falling one on top of the other to think "BOMB" first. As I said, No one has ever seen an airplane hit buildings constructed like this and the collapse of this odd combination.

.There was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse." --Chief Frank Cruthers

there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. it appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/Cruthers.txt

And why wouldn't floors falling around the building NOT APPEAR to be an EXPLOSION... :blink:

"I started walking back up towards Vesey Street. I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down.. --Paramedic Kevin Darnowski

Again, just more sounds like explosions as floors ram into each other. Note he doesn't say he SAW three explosions.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110202.PDF

And here is the outright LIE...

. we heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. . . . We then realized the building started to come down.. -- Firefighter Craig Carlsen

Note where these liars put the "...."

Now for the REAL quote...

I guess about three minutes later you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. We realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110505.PDF

With that alone I should rest my case. ;) These CT sites are dishonest.

Here is the other lie, they split up those quotes to make it seem like there are more people hearing explosions than there really are. You have paramedic Daniel Rivera's interview split in two and Stephen Gregory's interview split in two, as if there are different people hearing different explosions. They flood you with quotes hoping you won't notice. What other reason would they have for splitting them up???

.Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building." -- Captain Karin Deshore

MY BACK WAS TOWARDS THE BUILDING, TRYING TO PUSH EVERYBODY UP.

GRASSY HILL WAS THERE AND UP UNDERNEATH THAT OVERPASS, WHEN SOMEBODY JUST SIMPLY SHOUTED AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHO IT WAS, "IT'S BLOWING".

I HAD NO CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON. I NEVER TURNED AROUND BECAUSE A SOUND CAME FROM SOMEWHERE THAT NEVER HEARD BEFORE. SOME PEOPLE COMPARED IT WITH AN AIRPLANE. IT WAS THE WORST SOUND OF ROLLING SOUND, NOT A THUNDER CAN'T EXPLAIN IT, WHAT IT WAS. ALL I

KNOW IS -- AND FORCE STARTED TO COME HIT ME IN MY BACK. I CAN'T EXPLAIN IT. YOU HAD TO BE THERE. ALL I KNOW IS -- HAD TO RUN BECAUSE I THOUGHT THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION.

...I WAS UNAWARE WHAT WAS HAPPENING. I THOUGHT

IT WAS JUST MAJOR EXPLOSION I DIDN'T KNOW THE BUILDING WAS COLLAPSING

SOMEWHERE AROUND THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THERE WAS THIS ORANGE AND RED FLASH COMING OUT. INITIALLY IT WAS JUST ONE FLASH. THEN THIS FLASH JUST KEPT POPPING ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING AND THAT BUILDING HAD STARTED TO EXPLODE. THE POPPING SOUND, AND WITH EACH POPPING SOUND IT WAS INITIALLY AN ORANGE AND THEN RED FLASH CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN IT WOULD JUST GO ALL AROUND THE BUILDING ON BOTH SIDES AS FAR AS COULD SEE. THESE POPPING SOUNDS AND THE EXPLOSIONS WERE GETTING BIGGER GOING BOTH UP AND DOWN AND THEN ALL AROUND THE BUILDING.

It's time to see a transformer explosion.

http://www.stupidcollege.com/items/Electric-Transformer-Explosion

All these buildings had transformers and transformer vaults.

SO HERE THESE EXPLOSIONS ARE GETTING BIGGER AND LOUDER AND BIGGER AND LOUDER AND I TOLD EVERYBODY IF THIS BUILDING TOTALLY EXPLODES, STILL UNAWARE THAT THE OTHER BUILDING HAD COLLAPSED, IM GOING IN THE WATER.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110192.PDF

.I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion.. -- Captain Jay Swithers

When I was giving her the oxygen, setting up the tank, you could hear a loud rumble. Somebody said run for your life. I turned to see who was yelling "run".

At that point I looked back and most of the people who were triaged in that area with the triage tags on them got up and ran. I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.

But one thing that did happen was an ambulance pulled up which was very clean. So I assumed that the vehicle had not been in the - what I thought was an explosion at the time, but was the first collapse.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110172.PDF

First he heard the rumble. Not the so called "Explosion" which he never saw. Then he thought he heard an explosion because he saw the debris falling away from the building. He had TERRORIST on his mind and jumped to the conclusion that it was a bomb. You don't have to be a psychologist here.

Fire officer Paul Isaac Jr. asserted that 9-11 was an inside job last September 11 at ground zero where mourners and protesters were gathered; .I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it.s an inside job; and the firemen know it too., said Isaac.

"there were definitely bombs in those buildings,. Isaac added that .many other firemen know there were bombs in the buildings, but they.re afraid for their jobs to admit it because the .higher-ups. forbid discussion of this fact.. --Auxiliary Lieutenant Fireman Paul Isaac

Paul Isaac never said anything of the kind. Another Conspiracy Theorist deception.

A video is shown on just about every conspiracy web site which shows a few fireman discussing what they heard and saw.



fireman2: We made it outside, we made it about a block.
fireman1: We made it at least 2 blocks.
fireman2: 2 blocks.
fireman1: and we started runnin'
fireman2: poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch
fireman1: Floor by floor it started poppin' out .
fireman2: It was as if as if they had detonated, det.
fireman1: yea detonated yea
fireman2: as if they had planned to take down a building,
boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom.

In the context of reading it off a conspiracy site, this may sound like damning evidence. They are saying .detonated. and .they had planned to take down a building.. They even say .Boom. to describe the sound. But if you hear the other things they.re saying, their body language and context outside the conspiracy theory setting, something else emerges. Before or after every description is .As if.. .As if they had planned to take down a building.. .It was as if as if they had detonated.. They also use body language to show it was the sound of the floors crashing into one another.



boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom.

This could be just as powerful evidence of pancaking as the use of explosives. But the real evidence isn.t so much examining the video as examining the actions taken, or NOT taken, by the NYC Fire Department after the event. The NYC Fire Department hasn.t rallied its members to force an investigation into the possible murder of over 300 of its members. Some sites offer an explanation of this saying there was a gag order placed on the Fire Department. The only place you will find this is on conspiracy theory sites. No mention from main stream press about the hundreds if not thousands of fireman on the scene not being allowed to talk.

A glaring example of picking and choosing what to focus on is the interview with Mary Baldizzi... They point to a BBC article that says

The jet fuel caused the fire to spread so far and so fast that it effectively cut the building into two. For the 6,000 people below where the plane had hit the staircases still offered a means of escape, but for the 950 caught above the point of impact and the fire there was no way out.

The argument is made that towers fell because of separate detonations. As proof, they offered the case of Mary Baldizzi who supposedly had escaped the 104th floor of the World Trade Center's North Tower by elevator. Thus, the only way she could have escaped via elevator was if the core was intact at least to the 104th floor.

When I watched the video, I thought, if there had been a survivor from above the impact zone in Tower 1, it would have been widely broadcast. So, logically, I searched online for either confirmation or repudiation. I found neither. What I did find was the repeated use of Ms. Baldizzi's story as evidence in various alternative theories (i.e., other than fire) for the collapse of the towers.

Returning to the original video, I watched it several more times. After listening closely to Ms. Baldizzi's interview, I came to the conclusion that Mary Baldizzi was not on the 104th floor of the North Tower (WTC1) but was on the 104th floor of the South Tower (WTC2) and that this was a misrepresentation of her escape as having been from WTC1. Here are the reasons I came to this conclusion:

1. Although the newswomen began the interview stating that Mary Baldizzi had come down the elevators from the 104th floor and was in the "first tower when it was struck," at no time during the interview does Ms. Baldizzi state that she was in the North Tower. In addition, none of the graphics that accompany the interview claim that Ms. Baldizzi was in the North Tower. When Ms. Baldizzi is asked if she felt the impact, she says "Oh yeah." But the effects she describes -- feeling the heat, experiencing the shaking, hearing the explosion -- are all effects experienced by those who were in the South Tower on the floors adjacent to the impact zone (see:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-09-02-choices-usat_x.htm ). If she had been in the North Tower when it was hit then she would have described the impact in much less casual terms.

2. Around 5 minutes and 20 seconds into the interview, the interviewers ask about Ms. Baldizzi's coworkers. Ms. Baldizzi's states that she does not know the whereabouts of her fellow employees and proceeds to state, around 5:55 of the interview, that she has no way of contacting them other than to "call [the] main office in Illinois." Now, the offices on the 104th floor of the North Tower were occupied exclusively by Cantor Fitzgerald, while offices on the 104th floor of the South Tower were occupied by Sandler O'Neill (see: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/tenants1.html). Cantor Fitzgerald does not have a main office in Illinois (see: http://www.cantor.com/contact/). Sandler O'Neill, on the other hand, does have a central office in Chicago (see: http://www.sandleroneill.com/). This suggests that Ms. Baldizzi was an employee of Sandler O'Neill (in the South Tower) rather than Cantor Fitzgerald (in the North Tower).

3. Finally, and conclusively, at 6:15 in the interview Ms. Baldizzi begins a discussion about what she and her coworkers did when they exited the building. She clearly says: "There were police officers, thank God, that were aiming us towards Liberty St. because we stupidly walked towards One World Trade because we didn't know; we had no idea it was a terrorist attack." Now, if Ms. Baldizzi had been in One World Trade Center (i.e., the North Tower) there is no way she would have described her egress as "towards One Word Trade" because no matter in which direction she walked she would have been going away from One World Trade. This point proves, beyond any doubt, that Ms. Baldizzi exited from the South Tower and that the mistaken announcement at the beginning of the interview that she was in the North Tower was just one of the miscommunications and misunderstandings in the chaos of those early days.

I concluded that Ms. Baldizzi exited Tower 2 at the same time many others in the building did: after the North Tower was hit but before the South Tower was hit. If she was "dragged" into the elevator within seconds after the first tower was hit, and if the elevator ride took about 4 minutes, she would've been out of the building well before the South Tower was hit.

USA Today

As you can see the South Tower core was not damaged as much because of large, heavily constructed elevator equipment which protected it anyway.

There were two freight elevators that serviced the 104th floor.

Cars #6 and #50 serviced the 104th floor, lobby and basement levels.

----------

. Car #5: B1-5, 7, 9-40, 44
. Car #6: B1-5, 44, 75, 77-107 *
. Car #17: B1-1, 41, 43-78
. Car #48: B1-7, 9-40
. Car #49: B1-5, 41-74
. Car #50: B6-108 *
. Car #99: 107-110

There were two express elevators to Windows on the World (and related conference rooms and banquet facilities) in WTC 1 and two to the observation deck in WTC 2.

pg 34 (adobe pg 72)

NIST NCSTAR 1-7 (Draft)

Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster
Occupant Behavior, Egress, and Emergency Communications (Draft)

There were firemen who radioed in after being stuck in the elevator moments before the south tower collapsed.

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/wtcaudio/wtcaudio8.html

So there were elevators working in the south tower AFTER the impact. But what's important here is that the interview is being taken out of context. A theme which seems to run strong with these conspiracy theorists.

Thanks to Scott S Coastal and Drval.



-------------------------------------
The Airfone "Smoking Gun"

It has been going around the truther community the last week or so that they have found a "smoking gun" proving that 9/11 was a government conspiracy, because AA flight 77 did not have airfones. This has most recently been mentioned in a David Ray Griffin interview posted on 911 Blogger:

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/05/airfone-smoking-gun.html


--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

MoronLocator
2007-05-24 10:50:07 EST

"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
news:f32noj$rmu$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <vr45i.1678$DS2.1256@newsfe12.lga>,
> MoronLocator <yeah@right.net> wrote:
>>
>>"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
>>> Most of the claims made by Truthys have, as a foundation, misquotes, and
>>> lies.
>>>
>>> There was no molten steel on the WTC pile. All reports are
>>> second-hand.
>>
>>Who did the study that ultimately proves it wasn't molten steel , moron?


Thats a straight forward question, moron. Can't you answer it?



>>Are those second-hand reports plants by the terrorists or are they simply
>>liars in your view, kook?

Those are straight forward questions, moron. Can't you answer them?

>
> There are no known eye witnesses for ANY MOLTEN metal on the pile.

Moron is arguing about "on the pile" because the phrasing doesn't make him a
liar just clueless? Of course you've been presented with numerous accounts
of molten metal. I guess I could present them again:

Under the Corroborating Reports heading:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/moltensteel.html#ref3

> There are no measurements that show temps high enough, either.

if you say so kook moron.



MoronLocator
2007-05-24 11:11:48 EST

"John P." <JohnP_Da_Evil_Joo@WhyAreMoronsAttractedToMe.com> wrote in message
news:ANednRjfGojtssjbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@comcast.com...
> "MoronLocated" <yeah@righthere.net> wrote in a message
>
>>> All the quotyes of NY Firemen that seem to claim man-made explosives
>>> are out of context or edited to remove information that contradicts
>>> the trythy agenda.
>
>> Not all, mother-fucking, kook.
>
> Nice refutation.

It was all that was deserved, moron. Everybody knows, for good reason, that
there were many reports of secondary devices going off that day. I heard one
huge explosion come through the TV when they were showing it live from a
far.

I particularly like the way you didn't provide any of the
> actual quotes to show how his claim was wrong.

Should I waste my time reposting facts that crush you and your fellow
travelers beliefs?


The fact that you didn't
> provide any quotes or support for your disagreement is clear proof that
> you are right!

Yes it does and your fellow travelers have seen it all before and refuse it
as proof when there is no other logical explanation. Your fellow travelers,
you too in fact, have never offered a logical explanation and know you can
not. Therefore the denial that you've ever seen such facts is whined about
falsly over and over.


>
> I have no doubt you will win some type of major kook award for your
> achievement.

I wonder if it will be a large expensive one or be low budget since you all
without a doubt must be collecting monthly disability checks from your
government with your displayed mental deficiencies.



The Kat
2007-05-24 13:26:31 EST
On Thu, 24 May 2007 10:50:07 -0400, "MoronLocator" <yeah@right.net> wrote:

>http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/moltensteel.html#ref3

And in rebuttal...

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_molten_steel.html

I won't try to post it all here,
but I WILL tell you YOUR lick sucks;
it's wrong, and PROBABLY intentionally wrong.





--

Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.

This sig censored by the Office of Home, Land & Planet Insecurity...

Remove XYZ to email me

John P.
2007-05-24 22:30:19 EST
"MoronLocated" <yeah@right.net> wrote in a message

>>>> All the quotyes of NY Firemen that seem to claim man-made explosives
>>>> are out of context or edited to remove information that contradicts
>>>> the trythy agenda.

>>> Not all, mother-fucking, kook.

>> Nice refutation.

> It was all that was deserved, moron. Everybody knows, for good reason,
> that there were many reports of secondary devices going off that day. I
> heard one huge explosion come through the TV when they were showing it
> live from a far.

You're continuing to answer some quetion you made up in your own mind. The
point being made is that the kook sites using these quotes, always fail to
provide the entire quote. There is no need for such deciet and dishonesty
one is presenting a truth.

>> I particularly like the way you didn't provide any of the
>> actual quotes to show how his claim was wrong.

I particularly like how you've managed to miss the many posts, by Al Dykes,
which provided detailed examples of this dishonest use of selective quoting.

I've pasted one of them, in entirety, at the end of this response. I fully
expect you will ignore it this time, as you have every other time it was
posted.

> Should I waste my time reposting facts that crush you and your fellow
> travelers beliefs?

It'd be worth it just for the shock value. Imagine how the entire group of
shills (myself included) would sit here in stunned silence, staring blankly
at our monitors, if you were ever to manage to post a fact.

"I don't think the really heavy stuff is going to come down for quite a
while. I'd keep playing."


>> The fact that you didn't provide any quotes or
>> support for your disagreement is clear proof that you are right!

> Yes it does and your fellow travelers have seen it all before and refuse
> it as proof when there is no other logical explanation. Your fellow
> travelers, you too in fact, have never offered a logical explanation and
> know you can not. Therefore the denial that you've ever seen such facts is
> whined about falsly over and over.

I'll bet that means something to Mr. Brown.

Al Dykes - complete text follows;

Here's a bit of fraud by someone that uses "truth" a lot. Many 911
web sites, http://911review.com/coverup/oralhistories.html for one)
have this quote;

"you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south
tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten
explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was."
Craig Carlsen -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 8] ...

The sites never provide a link to the original testimony to see the
entire quote;

"you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south
tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten
explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. WE REALIZED
LATER AFTER TALKING AND FINDING OUT THAT IT WAS THE FLOORS
COLLAPSING TO WHERE THE PLANE HAD HIT.

Source:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110505.PDF


Many Truthy sites have this quote from a firemen. This
URL, for example; http://www.911lies.org/fire_fighters_911_wtc_tapes.html

"It was like a professional demolition where they set the charges on
certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'."
- NYC Paramedic Daniel Rivera

The Truthies edited Rivera's text to obscure the fact that Rivera
knew it was just syuff collapsing.

Q: HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS COMING DOWN
A: THAT NOISE IT WAS NOISE
Q: WHAT DID YOU HEAR WHAT DID YOU SEE
A: IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE.
AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL
DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN
FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR POP POP POP POP
POP THAVS EXACTLY WHAT BECAUSE THOUGHT
IT WASTHAT WHEN HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE
THAVS WHEN SAWTHE BUILDING COMING DOWN
Q: WHAT DID YOU DO
A: RUN MOST OF THE PEOPLE RAN INTO THE

Source:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110035.PDF


Here is the page of official testimony for about 500 first responders.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html

You can check lots of trythy quotes here, and if the Truty site says
something different, it's not impossible to contact any of them and
verify quote.

I first came across these fraud edited NYFD quotes on Jones' "peer
reviewed" 911 site. (there are more misleadingly edited quotes
there). One task of peer review is fact checking. It's clear that the
site is bullshit.

That's enough of the fine people in NYFD and EMS. Here are more;

------------------------------------------------------------

Many sites have quotes similar to this;

Danielle O'Brien commenting on how air traffic
controllers thought Flight 77 was a military plane based on
its maneuverability;
http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/aerobatics.html

but it leaves out the end of the statement,
"... you don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe."

My point isn't that the quote is goldplate accurate,
it's that the Truthies have edited pertenant info out,
not told us, and not given URLs to sources.


----------------------------------------------------------

Loose Change quotes the coroner, Wally Miller,
as seeing no bodies or blood the day of Flight 93's crash;
over the next several weeks Miller goes on to identify 12
passengers "using mostly dental records."[31]

http://www.postgazette.com/headlines/20011003crash1003p3.asp

------------------------------------------------------

You.ll often find transcripts of witness statements used on 9/11 sites.
Here.s one used to support a .controlled demolition at the WTC argument, for
instance.:

A description of what appeared to be a ring of explosions was also given by
Deputy Commissioner Thomas Fitzpatrick, who said: "We looked up at the
[south tower] . . . . All we saw was a puff of smoke coming from about 2
thirds of the way up . . . . It looked like sparkling around one specific
layer of the building. . . . My initial reaction was that this was exactly
the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV."
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4131

Convincing? Looks that way, but then that.s because you.re not reading the
original. Where Fitzpatrick says he doesn.t recall thinking he saw
explosions at all, and offers an alternative explanation, but mysteriously
that.s been edited out:

We looked up at the building straight up, we were that close. All we saw was
a puff of smoke coming from about 2 thirds of the way up. Some people
thought it was an explosion. I don't think I remember that. I remember
seeing, it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building.
I assume now that that was either windows starting to collapse like tinsel
or something. Then the building started to come down. My initial reaction
was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those
implosions on TV.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Fitzpatrick_Tom.txt

You always need to look at the complete transcript, then, and the 9/11
Transcripts Blog is designed to help you do just that. Interesting
transcripts are highlighted regularly, there.s a search engine to look for
quotes, and links to help you find out more. Visit it here.


----------------------------------------------------------



There are quotes like thisinterview of chief flight instructor Marcel
Bernard focusing on the weaknesses of Hani Hanjour's flying skills
when he took

Flight Academy] Staff members characterized Mr. Hanjour as polite,
meek and very quiet. But most of all, the former employee said,
they considered him a very bad pilot. "I'm still to this day amazed
that he could have flown into the Pentagon," the former employee
said. "He could not fly at all.


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hanjour.html

It fails to clarify Bernard's expert opinion on Hanjour's ability to
hit the Pentagon. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that
[hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a
building and hit it."


http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/deceptions/nynewsday_sep23.html

-------------------------



http://www.911lies.org/fire_fighters_911_wtc_tapes.html


---------

My favorite example of how these conspiracy theorists such as the guys
behind Loose Change selectively edit information in order to get the
desired conclusion is the CNN interview with the guy outside the
Pentagon right after the plane hit. The guy said (and I'm
paraphrasing) "It was a red and blue plane, clearly a United Jet, and
it crashed into the side of the Pentagon. It looked like a missile
when it was coming toward the building and there was a giant explosion
when I saw the plane hit the building." The conspiracy theorists edit
out everything except for "It looked like a missile" and use that as
absolute proof that a missile and not a plane hit the Pentagon.

-----------


I've been asking for months about where this 35 seconds of video came
from. I'd like to know what the Truthies edited out, given the above.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3060923273573302287

-----------




Home
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First Time in History
The Fires
The Twin Towers
World Trade Cener 7
The Free Fall Fallacy
Molten Steel Explained
Sounds of Explosions
The Firemans Quotes
Civil Engineers Quotes
Peer Reviewed Paper
Professor Steven E Jones
Massive Conspriracy
The Real Conspiracy
Government Planning
The 911 Zogby Poll
Debunking 911 Links


Quotes

.I saw a flash flash flash [at] the lower level of the building. You
know like when they demolish a building?.--Assistant Fire Commissioner
Stephen Gregory

Now the WHOLE QUOTE without the taking out of context...

I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista,
who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I
was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is
with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for
some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade
Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-leve]
flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning
this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in
front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that
time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of
the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and
then it looked like the building came down.

Q.: Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire
was?

A: No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish
a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's
what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me.
He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you
were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the
building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see
any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw
them, too.

I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building
cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical
explosions, it could have been whatever.

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/Gregory_Stephen.txt

Let me guess why they left that important part out..

.t was [like a] professional demolition where they set the charges
on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'."--Paramedic
Daniel Rivera

SO WE WERE PRETTY MUCH-MOST OF THE WORKERS WERE INSIDE THIS BUILDING. I
LIKE SAID, I DON'T KNOW IF ITS FIVE WORLD TRADE CENTER OR FOUR WORLD TRADE
CENTER. MOST OF THEM WERE IN THE BUILDING BECAUSE THE CHIEF OR THE CAPTAIN
SAID IF YOU WANT YOU CAN STAY INSIDE THAT BUILDING. BUT I DIDN'T FEEL SAFE
BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS TERRORIST ATTACK SO I WAS SCARED. EVERY TIME YOU HEAR
PLANE EVERYONE WOULD RUN. SO I PRETTY MUCH STOOD AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE. I
WOULD SEE TRIAGE, BUT I WAS PRETTY MUCH IN BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS.

THEN THAT'S WHEN-I KEPT ON WALKING CLOSE TO THE SOUTH TOWER, AND THAT'S
WHEN THAT BUILDING COLLAPSED.

Q: HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS COMING DOWN?

A: THAT NOISE .IT WAS NOISE.

Q: WHAT DID YOU HEAR? WHAT DID YOU SEE?

A: IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE. AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS-DO YOU EVER SEE
PROFESSIONAL DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN FLOORS AND
THEN YOU HEAR "POP, POP, POP, POP, POP"? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT-BECAUSE I
THOUGHT IT WAS THAT WHEN I HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE, THAT'S WHEN I SAW THE
BUILDING COMING DOWN.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110035.PDF

First, notice he and everyone else was scared of TERRORISTS. What do
TERRORIST DO? So it's not unreasonable for someone who is thinking TERRORIST
to hear the sound of huge concrete floors falling one on top of the other to
think "BOMB" first. As I said, No one has ever seen an airplane hit
buildings constructed like this and the collapse of this odd combination.

.There was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at
the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out
horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could
see the beginning of the collapse." --Chief Frank Cruthers

there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. it appeared at the
very top, simultaneously from all four sides

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/Cruthers.txt

And why wouldn't floors falling around the building NOT APPEAR to be an
EXPLOSION... :blink:

"I started walking back up towards Vesey Street. I heard three
explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two
started to come down.. --Paramedic Kevin Darnowski

Again, just more sounds like explosions as floors ram into each other.
Note he doesn't say he SAW three explosions.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110202.PDF

And here is the outright LIE...

. we heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It
seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. . . . We
then realized the building started to come down.. -- Firefighter Craig
Carlsen

Note where these liars put the "...."

Now for the REAL quote...

I guess about three minutes later you just heard explosions coming from
building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there
were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. We
realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors
collapsing to where the plane had hit.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110505.PDF

With that alone I should rest my case. ;) These CT sites are dishonest.

Here is the other lie, they split up those quotes to make it seem like
there are more people hearing explosions than there really are. You have
paramedic Daniel Rivera's interview split in two and Stephen Gregory's
interview split in two, as if there are different people hearing different
explosions. They flood you with quotes hoping you won't notice. What other
reason would they have for splitting them up???

.Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building
and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each
popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of
the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides
as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting
bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building." -- Captain
Karin Deshore

MY BACK WAS TOWARDS THE BUILDING, TRYING TO PUSH EVERYBODY UP.

GRASSY HILL WAS THERE AND UP UNDERNEATH THAT OVERPASS, WHEN SOMEBODY
JUST SIMPLY SHOUTED AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHO IT WAS, "IT'S BLOWING".

I HAD NO CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON. I NEVER TURNED AROUND BECAUSE A SOUND
CAME FROM SOMEWHERE THAT NEVER HEARD BEFORE. SOME PEOPLE COMPARED IT WITH AN
AIRPLANE. IT WAS THE WORST SOUND OF ROLLING SOUND, NOT A THUNDER CAN'T
EXPLAIN IT, WHAT IT WAS. ALL I

KNOW IS -- AND FORCE STARTED TO COME HIT ME IN MY BACK. I CAN'T EXPLAIN
IT. YOU HAD TO BE THERE. ALL I KNOW IS -- HAD TO RUN BECAUSE I THOUGHT THERE
WAS AN EXPLOSION.

...I WAS UNAWARE WHAT WAS HAPPENING. I THOUGHT

IT WAS JUST MAJOR EXPLOSION I DIDN'T KNOW THE BUILDING WAS COLLAPSING

SOMEWHERE AROUND THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THERE WAS THIS
ORANGE AND RED FLASH COMING OUT. INITIALLY IT WAS JUST ONE FLASH. THEN THIS
FLASH JUST KEPT POPPING ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING AND THAT BUILDING
HAD STARTED TO EXPLODE. THE POPPING SOUND, AND WITH EACH POPPING SOUND IT
WAS INITIALLY AN ORANGE AND THEN RED FLASH CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN
IT WOULD JUST GO ALL AROUND THE BUILDING ON BOTH SIDES AS FAR AS COULD SEE.
THESE POPPING SOUNDS AND THE EXPLOSIONS WERE GETTING BIGGER GOING BOTH UP
AND DOWN AND THEN ALL AROUND THE BUILDING.

It's time to see a transformer explosion.

http://www.stupidcollege.com/items/Electric-Transformer-Explosion

All these buildings had transformers and transformer vaults.

SO HERE THESE EXPLOSIONS ARE GETTING BIGGER AND LOUDER AND BIGGER AND
LOUDER AND I TOLD EVERYBODY IF THIS BUILDING TOTALLY EXPLODES, STILL UNAWARE
THAT THE OTHER BUILDING HAD COLLAPSED, IM GOING IN THE WATER.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110192.PDF

.I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it
falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe
it was just an explosion.. -- Captain Jay Swithers

When I was giving her the oxygen, setting up the tank, you could hear a
loud rumble. Somebody said run for your life. I turned to see who was
yelling "run".

At that point I looked back and most of the people who were triaged in
that area with the triage tags on them got up and ran. I took a quick glance
at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of
it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought
it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.

But one thing that did happen was an ambulance pulled up which was very
clean. So I assumed that the vehicle had not been in the - what I thought
was an explosion at the time, but was the first collapse.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110172.PDF

First he heard the rumble. Not the so called "Explosion" which he never
saw. Then he thought he heard an explosion because he saw the debris falling
away from the building. He had TERRORIST on his mind and jumped to the
conclusion that it was a bomb. You don't have to be a psychologist here.

Fire officer Paul Isaac Jr. asserted that 9-11 was an inside job
last September 11 at ground zero where mourners and protesters were
gathered; .I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it.s an inside
job; and the firemen know it too., said Isaac.

"there were definitely bombs in those buildings,. Isaac added that
.many other firemen know there were bombs in the buildings, but they.re
afraid for their jobs to admit it because the .higher-ups. forbid discussion
of this fact.. --Auxiliary Lieutenant Fireman Paul Isaac

Paul Isaac never said anything of the kind. Another Conspiracy Theorist
deception.

A video is shown on just about every conspiracy web site which shows a
few fireman discussing what they heard and saw.



fireman2: We made it outside, we made it about a block.
fireman1: We made it at least 2 blocks.
fireman2: 2 blocks.
fireman1: and we started runnin'
fireman2: poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch
fireman1: Floor by floor it started poppin' out .
fireman2: It was as if as if they had detonated, det.
fireman1: yea detonated yea
fireman2: as if they had planned to take down a building,
boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom.

In the context of reading it off a conspiracy site, this may sound like
damning evidence. They are saying .detonated. and .they had planned to take
down a building.. They even say .Boom. to describe the sound. But if you
hear the other things they.re saying, their body language and context
outside the conspiracy theory setting, something else emerges. Before or
after every description is .As if.. .As if they had planned to take down a
building.. .It was as if as if they had detonated.. They also use body
language to show it was the sound of the floors crashing into one another.



boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom.

This could be just as powerful evidence of pancaking as the use of
explosives. But the real evidence isn.t so much examining the video as
examining the actions taken, or NOT taken, by the NYC Fire Department after
the event. The NYC Fire Department hasn.t rallied its members to force an
investigation into the possible murder of over 300 of its members. Some
sites offer an explanation of this saying there was a gag order placed on
the Fire Department. The only place you will find this is on conspiracy
theory sites. No mention from main stream press about the hundreds if not
thousands of fireman on the scene not being allowed to talk.

A glaring example of picking and choosing what to focus on is the
interview with Mary Baldizzi... They point to a BBC article that says

The jet fuel caused the fire to spread so far and so fast that
it effectively cut the building into two. For the 6,000 people below where
the plane had hit the staircases still offered a means of escape, but for
the 950 caught above the point of impact and the fire there was no way out.

The argument is made that towers fell because of separate
detonations. As proof, they offered the case of Mary Baldizzi who supposedly
had escaped the 104th floor of the World Trade Center's North Tower by
elevator. Thus, the only way she could have escaped via elevator was if the
core was intact at least to the 104th floor.

When I watched the video, I thought, if there had been a survivor
from above the impact zone in Tower 1, it would have been widely broadcast.
So, logically, I searched online for either confirmation or repudiation. I
found neither. What I did find was the repeated use of Ms. Baldizzi's story
as evidence in various alternative theories (i.e., other than fire) for the
collapse of the towers.

Returning to the original video, I watched it several more times.
After listening closely to Ms. Baldizzi's interview, I came to the
conclusion that Mary Baldizzi was not on the 104th floor of the North Tower
(WTC1) but was on the 104th floor of the South Tower (WTC2) and that this
was a misrepresentation of her escape as having been from WTC1. Here are the
reasons I came to this conclusion:

1. Although the newswomen began the interview stating that Mary
Baldizzi had come down the elevators from the 104th floor and was in the
"first tower when it was struck," at no time during the interview does Ms.
Baldizzi state that she was in the North Tower. In addition, none of the
graphics that accompany the interview claim that Ms. Baldizzi was in the
North Tower. When Ms. Baldizzi is asked if she felt the impact, she says "Oh
yeah." But the effects she describes -- feeling the heat, experiencing the
shaking, hearing the explosion -- are all effects experienced by those who
were in the South Tower on the floors adjacent to the impact zone (see:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-09-02-choices-usat_x.htm ).
If she had been in the North Tower when it was hit then she would have
described the impact in much less casual terms.

2. Around 5 minutes and 20 seconds into the interview, the
interviewers ask about Ms. Baldizzi's coworkers. Ms. Baldizzi's states that
she does not know the whereabouts of her fellow employees and proceeds to
state, around 5:55 of the interview, that she has no way of contacting them
other than to "call [the] main office in Illinois." Now, the offices on the
104th floor of the North Tower were occupied exclusively by Cantor
Fitzgerald, while offices on the 104th floor of the South Tower were
occupied by Sandler O'Neill (see:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/tenants1.html). Cantor
Fitzgerald does not have a main office in Illinois (see:
http://www.cantor.com/contact/). Sandler O'Neill, on the other hand, does
have a central office in Chicago (see: http://www.sandleroneill.com/). This
suggests that Ms. Baldizzi was an employee of Sandler O'Neill (in the South
Tower) rather than Cantor Fitzgerald (in the North Tower).

3. Finally, and conclusively, at 6:15 in the interview Ms. Baldizzi
begins a discussion about what she and her coworkers did when they exited
the building. She clearly says: "There were police officers, thank God, that
were aiming us towards Liberty St. because we stupidly walked towards One
World Trade because we didn't know; we had no idea it was a terrorist
attack." Now, if Ms. Baldizzi had been in One World Trade Center (i.e., the
North Tower) there is no way she would have described her egress as "towards
One Word Trade" because no matter in which direction she walked she would
have been going away from One World Trade. This point proves, beyond any
doubt, that Ms. Baldizzi exited from the South Tower and that the mistaken
announcement at the beginning of the interview that she was in the North
Tower was just one of the miscommunications and misunderstandings in the
chaos of those early days.

I concluded that Ms. Baldizzi exited Tower 2 at the same time many
others in the building did: after the North Tower was hit but before the
South Tower was hit. If she was "dragged" into the elevator within seconds
after the first tower was hit, and if the elevator ride took about 4
minutes, she would've been out of the building well before the South Tower
was hit.

USA Today

As you can see the South Tower core was not damaged as much because of
large, heavily constructed elevator equipment which protected it anyway.

There were two freight elevators that serviced the 104th floor.

Cars #6 and #50 serviced the 104th floor, lobby and basement levels.

----------

. Car #5: B1-5, 7, 9-40, 44
. Car #6: B1-5, 44, 75, 77-107 *
. Car #17: B1-1, 41, 43-78
. Car #48: B1-7, 9-40
. Car #49: B1-5, 41-74
. Car #50: B6-108 *
. Car #99: 107-110

There were two express elevators to Windows on the World (and related
conference rooms and banquet facilities) in WTC 1 and two to the observation
deck in WTC 2.

pg 34 (adobe pg 72)

NIST NCSTAR 1-7 (Draft)

Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center
Disaster
Occupant Behavior, Egress, and Emergency Communications (Draft)

There were firemen who radioed in after being stuck in the elevator
moments before the south tower collapsed.

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/wtcaudio/wtcaudio8.html

So there were elevators working in the south tower AFTER the impact. But
what's important here is that the interview is being taken out of context. A
theme which seems to run strong with these conspiracy theorists.

Thanks to Scott S Coastal and Drval.



-------------------------------------
The Airfone "Smoking Gun"

It has been going around the truther community the last week or so that they
have found a "smoking gun" proving that 9/11 was a government conspiracy,
because AA flight 77 did not have airfones. This has most recently been
mentioned in a David Ray Griffin interview posted on 911 Blogger:

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/05/airfone-smoking-gun.html


--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001


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