Activism Discussion: Superheroes

Superheroes
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Dan Clore
2007-06-20 23:07:13 EST
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Readers might find this bit from a private e-mail conversation
interesting/entertaining:

> > Hey Dan care to comment on this quote from Frank Herbert?
> >
> > "Enormous problems arise when human mistakes are made on the grand
scale
> > available to a superhero... Heroes are painful, superheroes are a
> > catastrophe. The mistakes of superheroes involve too many of us in
> > disaster."

Now that's interesting. I generally like superheroes (though that's not
an area that I concentrate much attention on), but I think that this
makes a very good point. From a libertarian viewpoint, it should seem
obvious that *anything* that concentrates a great deal of power in the
hands of an individual or small group, rather than decentralizing and
balancing power among society in general, is likely to have disastrous
results. People with superpowers would prove no exception to this
general rule, nor to the fact that power corrupts.

Further, consider the mentality of superheroes, as normally portrayed,
from a libertarian view. While supervillains could be considered egoists
who have no concern for the rights of others, superheroes could be
considered obsessives possessed by the need to inflict their own moral
code on everyone else. That would be fine if they restricted this to
victimless crimes and avoided violating others' rights; but instead,
they typically follow the moral code of the ruling class, assuming that
current laws are unquestionably right just because the authorities in
power say so.

(Paranthetical note: there is also another sort of supervillain, one
effectively like a superhero, but with a moral code at variance with the
authorities, leading them to make war and commit terrorism. This type
goes back through the literary stereotype of the evil Oriental
mastermind, starting with Hassan i Sabbah of the Assassins and coming
down to the present through villains like Dr Fu Manchu, switching back
and forth from Muslim to "yellow peril" Chinese/Japanese as
circumstances dictate. Current mass media treatment of figures like
Osama bin Ladin fit into this villainous mastermand stereotype. A novel
I chanced to read right after 9/11, Robert E. Howard's _Three-Bladed
Doom_, concerning a Muslim mastermind leading terrorist attacks on the
West from his cavern base in the mountains of Afghanistan, is uncannily
similar in its portrayal of this type of villain to the media's
portrayal of Osama.)

This effectively provides the government and ruling elite generally with
ultrapowerful, lawless vigilantes to enforce their power over the
general population, who have no recourse against their arbitrary power,
not even the ability to know the true identity of those who act as
police, judge, jury, and executioner against them. (If you were a
criminal suspect, would you want your case dealt with by someone who
dresses up in a bat suit and spends his time chasing clowns around? What
sort of judgment and mental health does this sort of behavior indicate?
Who *really* belongs in Arkham Asylum, Boy Wonder?)

Just imagine if a president like Nixon, Reagan, or Dubya had Superman to
enforce his role as the "decider". Can you imagine what would happen to
the populations of Southeast Asia, Central America, or the Middle East
when some of them decided to resist American invaders/occupiers and
their puppets? Originating during WWII, when the theme was more
understandable given the real-world villains in question, the ethics of
superheroes tend towards the jingoistic.

Would you really want Commissioner Gordon running to the bat phone every
time he decided some political protestors overstepped the bounds of free
speech? If you think that's a joke, I recall an issue of _Detective
Comics_ in which a homeless Vietnam veteran, confined to a wheelchair,
stages a "sit-in" protest against a bank being built in a vacant lot
where the homeless liked to hang out. Batman knocks him out of his
wheelchair and removes him from the area in a rather violent manner.

Well, that's probably enough rambling. I'm off to my secret laboratory,
where I'm working on a death ray that only kills politicians.

--
Dan Clore

My collected fiction: _The Unspeakable and Others_
http://amazon.com/o/ASIN/1587154838/ref=nosim/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

"Don't just question authority,
Don't forget to question me."
-- Jello Biafra






















Michael A. Clem
2007-06-21 13:43:14 EST
Dan Clore wrote:
> News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
>
> Readers might find this bit from a private e-mail conversation
> interesting/entertaining:
>
> > > Hey Dan care to comment on this quote from Frank Herbert?
> > >
> > > "Enormous problems arise when human mistakes are made on the grand
> scale
> > > available to a superhero... Heroes are painful, superheroes are a
> > > catastrophe. The mistakes of superheroes involve too many of us in
> > > disaster."
>
> Now that's interesting. I generally like superheroes (though that's not
> an area that I concentrate much attention on), but I think that this
> makes a very good point. From a libertarian viewpoint, it should seem
> obvious that *anything* that concentrates a great deal of power in the
> hands of an individual or small group, rather than decentralizing and
> balancing power among society in general, is likely to have disastrous
> results. People with superpowers would prove no exception to this
> general rule, nor to the fact that power corrupts.
>
> Further, consider the mentality of superheroes, as normally portrayed,
> from a libertarian view. While supervillains could be considered egoists
> who have no concern for the rights of others, superheroes could be
> considered obsessives possessed by the need to inflict their own moral
> code on everyone else. That would be fine if they restricted this to
> victimless crimes and avoided violating others' rights; but instead,
> they typically follow the moral code of the ruling class, assuming that
> current laws are unquestionably right just because the authorities in
> power say so.
>

> This effectively provides the government and ruling elite generally with
> ultrapowerful, lawless vigilantes to enforce their power over the
> general population, who have no recourse against their arbitrary power,
> not even the ability to know the true identity of those who act as
> police, judge, jury, and executioner against them. (If you were a
> criminal suspect, would you want your case dealt with by someone who
> dresses up in a bat suit and spends his time chasing clowns around? What
> sort of judgment and mental health does this sort of behavior indicate?
> Who *really* belongs in Arkham Asylum, Boy Wonder?)
>

But the original idea of a vigilante, even a super-vigilante, is that
he's not necessarily upholding the existing law, but merely the laws
that *he* sees fit to uphold. Batman was originally created as an
adversary of the law, although he quickly became part of the
establishment through his association with Commissioner Gordon. Only
much later reconstructionism of Batman's origin had it that Gotham
authorities were corrupt and Gordon sought Batman's help to rout the
corruption and clean up the city.
Superman was originally a leftist do-gooder who only later became an
upholder of the status quo. Early issues of Action and Superman had him
do things like subject the owners of a mine to the bad conditions the
miners themselves had to suffer, while in another story, Superman
single-handedly stops a war between two smaller countries, because it
"obviously" wasn't about any real issue, but simply to provide profits
to munitions companies.

A patriotic superhero like Captain America would seem to be an obvious
character to explore authority and justice, and occasionally a writer
like Steve Englehart has done just that, although such stories tend to
be exceptions rather than typical of the series.


> Well, that's probably enough rambling. I'm off to my secret laboratory,
> where I'm working on a death ray that only kills politicians.
>

"Good luck with that!"


Michael Price
2007-06-22 01:32:49 EST
On Jun 21, 1:07 pm, Dan Clore <c...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
> News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
>
> Readers might find this bit from a private e-mail conversation
> interesting/entertaining:
>
> > > Hey Dan care to comment on this quote from Frank Herbert?
> > >
> > > "Enormous problems arise when human mistakes are made on the grand
> scale
> > > available to a superhero... Heroes are painful, superheroes are a
> > > catastrophe. The mistakes of superheroes involve too many of us in
> > > disaster."
>
> Now that's interesting. I generally like superheroes (though that's not
> an area that I concentrate much attention on), but I think that this
> makes a very good point. From a libertarian viewpoint, it should seem
> obvious that *anything* that concentrates a great deal of power in the
> hands of an individual or small group, rather than decentralizing and
> balancing power among society in general, is likely to have disastrous
> results. People with superpowers would prove no exception to this
> general rule, nor to the fact that power corrupts.
>
> Further, consider the mentality of superheroes, as normally portrayed,
> from a libertarian view. While supervillains could be considered egoists
> who have no concern for the rights of others, superheroes could be
> considered obsessives possessed by the need to inflict their own moral
> code on everyone else. That would be fine if they restricted this to
> victimless crimes and avoided violating others' rights; but instead,
> they typically follow the moral code of the ruling class, assuming that
> current laws are unquestionably right just because the authorities in
> power say so.
>
> (Paranthetical note: there is also another sort of supervillain, one
> effectively like a superhero, but with a moral code at variance with the
> authorities, leading them to make war and commit terrorism. This type
> goes back through the literary stereotype of the evil Oriental
> mastermind, starting with Hassan i Sabbah of the Assassins and coming
> down to the present through villains like Dr Fu Manchu, switching back
> and forth from Muslim to "yellow peril" Chinese/Japanese as
> circumstances dictate. Current mass media treatment of figures like
> Osama bin Ladin fit into this villainous mastermand stereotype. A novel
> I chanced to read right after 9/11, Robert E. Howard's _Three-Bladed
> Doom_, concerning a Muslim mastermind leading terrorist attacks on the
> West from his cavern base in the mountains of Afghanistan, is uncannily
> similar in its portrayal of this type of villain to the media's
> portrayal of Osama.)
>
> This effectively provides the government and ruling elite generally with
> ultrapowerful, lawless vigilantes to enforce their power over the
> general population, who have no recourse against their arbitrary power,
> not even the ability to know the true identity of those who act as
> police, judge, jury, and executioner against them. (If you were a
> criminal suspect, would you want your case dealt with by someone who
> dresses up in a bat suit and spends his time chasing clowns around? What
> sort of judgment and mental health does this sort of behavior indicate?
> Who *really* belongs in Arkham Asylum, Boy Wonder?)
>
> Just imagine if a president like Nixon, Reagan, or Dubya had Superman to
> enforce his role as the "decider". Can you imagine what would happen to
> the populations of Southeast Asia, Central America, or the Middle East
> when some of them decided to resist American invaders/occupiers and
> their puppets? Originating during WWII, when the theme was more
> understandable given the real-world villains in question, the ethics of
> superheroes tend towards the jingoistic.
>
> Would you really want Commissioner Gordon running to the bat phone every
> time he decided some political protestors overstepped the bounds of free
> speech? If you think that's a joke, I recall an issue of _Detective
> Comics_ in which a homeless Vietnam veteran, confined to a wheelchair,
> stages a "sit-in" protest against a bank being built in a vacant lot
> where the homeless liked to hang out. Batman knocks him out of his
> wheelchair and removes him from the area in a rather violent manner.
>
> Well, that's probably enough rambling. I'm off to my secret laboratory,
> where I'm working on a death ray that only kills politicians.
>
> --
> Dan Clore
>
> My collected fiction: _The Unspeakable and Others_http://amazon.com/o/ASIN/1587154838/ref=nosim/thedanclorenecro
> Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
> News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
>
> "Don't just question authority,
> Don't forget to question me."
> -- Jello Biafra

I've actually been trying to write an anarchist superhero comic
"Black Flag". The idea is he saves someone from extortionists and
then decides he likes saving people. He does it for free for a while
has to stop due to his boss insisting he either stop taking time off
work or pay for the disruption. When he asks for donations the boss
then makes the first one. Eventually he conflicts with the police
over their enforcement of aggressive laws, including an attempt to
disarm a 15 year old superhero of the thing tht gives him his powers.
The 15 year old takes the responsibility of owning the weapon quite
seriously, while the governments attempts to take it from him are
secretive, dishonest and violent. At one point some superheros are
debating the fact that BF doesn't enforce laws he disagrees with and
one of them points out that they're all either illegal immigrants,
carrying weapons without permits or alive because of non-FDA approved
medicines.
So far I don't think it's going well, I'm not really a good writer
and the story arcs are uneven, but do you think it's a good idea?


Dan Clore
2007-06-22 23:42:21 EST
Michael Price wrote:
> On Jun 21, 1:07 pm, Dan Clore <c...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
>> News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

> I've actually been trying to write an anarchist superhero comic
> "Black Flag". The idea is he saves someone from extortionists and
> then decides he likes saving people. He does it for free for a while
> has to stop due to his boss insisting he either stop taking time off
> work or pay for the disruption. When he asks for donations the boss
> then makes the first one. Eventually he conflicts with the police
> over their enforcement of aggressive laws, including an attempt to
> disarm a 15 year old superhero of the thing tht gives him his powers.
> The 15 year old takes the responsibility of owning the weapon quite
> seriously, while the governments attempts to take it from him are
> secretive, dishonest and violent. At one point some superheros are
> debating the fact that BF doesn't enforce laws he disagrees with and
> one of them points out that they're all either illegal immigrants,
> carrying weapons without permits or alive because of non-FDA approved
> medicines.
> So far I don't think it's going well, I'm not really a good writer
> and the story arcs are uneven, but do you think it's a good idea?

Could be. The most important consideration, aside from just plain coming
up with an exciting plot and treating it in a suspenseful manner, would
be avoiding come off as preachy. You need to make sure that no matter
how much didactic content you work in, the reader must not be tempted to
stop and wonder whether you came up with the plot in order to preach the
didactic content -- it must seem as though the didactic content simply
arose naturally from the story. It works best of all if you do not need
to state the didactic content outright, but can let readers figure it
out for themselves. (This doesn't always work well, though: Tolkien, for
example, used the one ring as an example of power-over-others, power
that tempts even the best and inevitably corrupts anyone who possesses
it -- but instead of getting the point, readers always want to make dumb
allegories about the atomic bomb, which doesn't resemble the ring in any
way.)

If you get a script worked up, you'd probably want to try to sell it as
a one-off graphic novel, rather than starting a series. Then, if it's
popular enough, go on from there with sequels. (I've never worked in the
comics industry, so that's just my opinion, someone else may know better.)

I'm beginning to picture a movie adaptation starring Henry Rollins as
the superhero with Jello Biafra as a supervillain (Jello has said that
he always wanted to be a villain on the campy old Batman series.)

--
Dan Clore

My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://amazon.com/o/ASIN/1587154838/ref=nosim/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"

Michael A. Clem
2007-06-23 16:13:18 EST
Michael Price wrote:
>
> I've actually been trying to write an anarchist superhero comic
> "Black Flag". The idea is he saves someone from extortionists and
> then decides he likes saving people. He does it for free for a while
> has to stop due to his boss insisting he either stop taking time off
> work or pay for the disruption. When he asks for donations the boss
> then makes the first one. Eventually he conflicts with the police
> over their enforcement of aggressive laws, including an attempt to
> disarm a 15 year old superhero of the thing tht gives him his powers.
> The 15 year old takes the responsibility of owning the weapon quite
> seriously, while the governments attempts to take it from him are
> secretive, dishonest and violent. At one point some superheros are
> debating the fact that BF doesn't enforce laws he disagrees with and
> one of them points out that they're all either illegal immigrants,
> carrying weapons without permits or alive because of non-FDA approved
> medicines.
> So far I don't think it's going well, I'm not really a good writer
> and the story arcs are uneven, but do you think it's a good idea?
>

Personally, I think it's a good idea. It would be good for the
superhero industry to have some wildly variant ideas that takes a
serious look at the nature of government and the laws they enforce--what
better way to do that than with a vigilante? Mainstream comics writers
have explored similar ideas at times, but either seem rather naive
about political philosophy or unwilling to carry the idea to extremes.
I agree with what Dan said about not being preachy. I dearly wish that
Steve Ditko could have handled that part better in his Mr. A stories
(and did more complicated plots).

But what could be more natural than to have a superhero at odds with the
police precisely because he doesn't support the status quo. Instead of
tackling corruption in government ("if we just get the right people in
government, things will be okay"), why not tackle the corruption of
government itself ("government itself is the problem")? A dedicated,
moral superhero wouldn't simply uphold the laws he agrees with, but
would also fight the laws he disagrees with. What if said hero
interfered with police drug busts or prostitution stings as well as
fought murderers and robbers? What if a hero decided to take out a
corrupt leader like Mugabe or Chavez to prevent or interfere with U.S.
government interference or influence in those countries?

Dan Clore
2007-06-24 22:28:36 EST
Michael A. Clem wrote:
> Michael Price wrote:
>> I've actually been trying to write an anarchist superhero comic
>> "Black Flag". The idea is he saves someone from extortionists and
>> then decides he likes saving people. He does it for free for a while
>> has to stop due to his boss insisting he either stop taking time off
>> work or pay for the disruption. When he asks for donations the boss
>> then makes the first one. Eventually he conflicts with the police
>> over their enforcement of aggressive laws, including an attempt to
>> disarm a 15 year old superhero of the thing tht gives him his powers.
>> The 15 year old takes the responsibility of owning the weapon quite
>> seriously, while the governments attempts to take it from him are
>> secretive, dishonest and violent. At one point some superheros are
>> debating the fact that BF doesn't enforce laws he disagrees with and
>> one of them points out that they're all either illegal immigrants,
>> carrying weapons without permits or alive because of non-FDA approved
>> medicines.
>> So far I don't think it's going well, I'm not really a good writer
>> and the story arcs are uneven, but do you think it's a good idea?
>>
> Personally, I think it's a good idea. It would be good for the
> superhero industry to have some wildly variant ideas that takes a
> serious look at the nature of government and the laws they enforce--what
> better way to do that than with a vigilante? Mainstream comics writers
> have explored similar ideas at times, but either seem rather naive
> about political philosophy or unwilling to carry the idea to extremes.
> I agree with what Dan said about not being preachy. I dearly wish that
> Steve Ditko could have handled that part better in his Mr. A stories
> (and did more complicated plots).
>
> But what could be more natural than to have a superhero at odds with the
> police precisely because he doesn't support the status quo. Instead of
> tackling corruption in government ("if we just get the right people in
> government, things will be okay"), why not tackle the corruption of
> government itself ("government itself is the problem")? A dedicated,
> moral superhero wouldn't simply uphold the laws he agrees with, but
> would also fight the laws he disagrees with. What if said hero
> interfered with police drug busts or prostitution stings as well as
> fought murderers and robbers?

Good idea, but one should make absolutely certain that (1) the superhero
takes a truly libertarian position; and (2) the action will arouse
sympathy in the reader. For example, if the superhero interferes in drug
busts, they should be something like a bust against medicinal marijuana,
not against gangbangers selling crack in a school playground; likewise,
if the superhero interferes in prostitution stings, he should also make
sure not to leave the prostitutes in the hands of pimps who smack them
around and take most of the proceeds, but go after these pimps as well
and perhaps even help the prostitutes organize a cooperative together,
pointing out to them benefits of doing so, such as the fact that if they
all refuse to do business with johns who refuse to wear condoms they
won't have to worry about getting AIDS from their or from losing
customers, as the johns will give in and wear condoms whether they want
to or not (this has worked very well in the real world). Again, Black
Flag might find the CEO of a business dumping tons of toxic pollution
into a river or lake, grab him by his collar, fly him over the polluted
area, and casually mention that on their next flight his grip might not
be so tight. In a case like this, he needs to be sure to give the
offender a chance to make good, and should definitely not come out
looking like Super-ELF.

--
Dan Clore

My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://amazon.com/o/ASIN/1587154838/ref=nosim/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"

Michael Price
2007-06-25 01:42:35 EST
On Jun 25, 12:28 pm, Dan Clore <c...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
> Michael A. Clem wrote:
> > Michael Price wrote:
> >> I've actually been trying to write an anarchist superhero comic
> >> "Black Flag". The idea is he saves someone from extortionists and
> >> then decides he likes saving people. He does it for free for a while
> >> has to stop due to his boss insisting he either stop taking time off
> >> work or pay for the disruption. When he asks for donations the boss
> >> then makes the first one. Eventually he conflicts with the police
> >> over their enforcement of aggressive laws, including an attempt to
> >> disarm a 15 year old superhero of the thing tht gives him his powers.
> >> The 15 year old takes the responsibility of owning the weapon quite
> >> seriously, while the governments attempts to take it from him are
> >> secretive, dishonest and violent. At one point some superheros are
> >> debating the fact that BF doesn't enforce laws he disagrees with and
> >> one of them points out that they're all either illegal immigrants,
> >> carrying weapons without permits or alive because of non-FDA approved
> >> medicines.
> >> So far I don't think it's going well, I'm not really a good writer
> >> and the story arcs are uneven, but do you think it's a good idea?
>
> > Personally, I think it's a good idea. It would be good for the
> > superhero industry to have some wildly variant ideas that takes a
> > serious look at the nature of government and the laws they enforce--what
> > better way to do that than with a vigilante? Mainstream comics writers
> > have explored similar ideas at times, but either seem rather naive
> > about political philosophy or unwilling to carry the idea to extremes.
> > I agree with what Dan said about not being preachy. I dearly wish that
> > Steve Ditko could have handled that part better in his Mr. A stories
> > (and did more complicated plots).
>
> > But what could be more natural than to have a superhero at odds with the
> > police precisely because he doesn't support the status quo. Instead of
> > tackling corruption in government ("if we just get the right people in
> > government, things will be okay"), why not tackle the corruption of
> > government itself ("government itself is the problem")? A dedicated,
> > moral superhero wouldn't simply uphold the laws he agrees with, but
> > would also fight the laws he disagrees with. What if said hero
> > interfered with police drug busts or prostitution stings as well as
> > fought murderers and robbers?
>
> Good idea, but one should make absolutely certain that (1) the superhero
> takes a truly libertarian position; and (2) the action will arouse
> sympathy in the reader. For example, if the superhero interferes in drug
> busts, they should be something like a bust against medicinal marijuana,
> not against gangbangers selling crack in a school playground; likewise,
> if the superhero interferes in prostitution stings, he should also make
> sure not to leave the prostitutes in the hands of pimps who smack them
> around and take most of the proceeds, but go after these pimps as well
> and perhaps even help the prostitutes organize a cooperative together,
> pointing out to them benefits of doing so, such as the fact that if they
> all refuse to do business with johns who refuse to wear condoms they
> won't have to worry about getting AIDS from their or from losing
> customers, as the johns will give in and wear condoms whether they want
> to or not (this has worked very well in the real world). Again, Black
> Flag might find the CEO of a business dumping tons of toxic pollution
> into a river or lake, grab him by his collar, fly him over the polluted
> area, and casually mention that on their next flight his grip might not
> be so tight. In a case like this, he needs to be sure to give the
> offender a chance to make good, and should definitely not come out
> looking like Super-ELF.
>
> --
> Dan Clore

Well I had imagined him as giving protection against pimps and cops
on an equal footing
as far as possible. But then I imagined him as unable to take on the
whole police force
by himself and therefore limited in his actions against it, at least
initially. No doubt he'd give
advice to prostitutes if they asked for it but why would they listen
to him? As for the toxic
pollution the government is chiefly to blame for that because they
prevent anyone else
preventing it. Threatening the CEO is fine, but as much as possible
of the toxic waste
should be sent to the local government enviromental management
offices.
>
> My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:http://amazon.com/o/ASIN/1587154838/ref=nosim/thedanclorenecro
> Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
> News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
>
> Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
> immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
> -- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"


Dan Clore
2007-06-25 05:31:34 EST
Michael Price wrote:
> On Jun 25, 12:28 pm, Dan Clore <c...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
>> Michael A. Clem wrote:
>>> Michael Price wrote:

> Well I had imagined him as giving protection against pimps and cops
> on an equal footing
> as far as possible. But then I imagined him as unable to take on the
> whole police force
> by himself and therefore limited in his actions against it, at least
> initially. No doubt he'd give
> advice to prostitutes if they asked for it but why would they listen
> to him?

I don't know, but I'm starting to see story arc in which the prostitutes
set out to determine just how far his "superpowers" go.

--
Dan Clore

My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://amazon.com/o/ASIN/1587154838/ref=nosim/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"

Michael Price
2007-06-25 22:29:31 EST
On Jun 25, 7:31 pm, Dan Clore <c...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
> Michael Price wrote:
> > On Jun 25, 12:28 pm, Dan Clore <c...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
> >> Michael A. Clem wrote:
> >>> Michael Price wrote:
> > Well I had imagined him as giving protection against pimps and cops
> > on an equal footing
> > as far as possible. But then I imagined him as unable to take on the
> > whole police force
> > by himself and therefore limited in his actions against it, at least
> > initially. No doubt he'd give
> > advice to prostitutes if they asked for it but why would they listen
> > to him?
>
> I don't know, but I'm starting to see story arc in which the prostitutes
> set out to determine just how far his "superpowers" go.
>
> --
> Dan Clore
>
> My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:http://amazon.com/o/ASIN/1587154838/ref=nosim/thedanclorenecro
> Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
> News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
>
> Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
> immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
> -- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"

Why am I thinking of the BtVS episode where Buffy was described as
having "Stamina"?

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