Activism Discussion: Texas Shotgun Justice

Texas Shotgun Justice
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Robert LaCasse
2007-12-06 01:46:35 EST

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:08:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Bruce Mills
Subject: Texas shotgun justice

http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/story.html?id=145182

Texas shotgun justice

Mary Vallis, National Post
Published: Wednesday, December 05, 2007

More On This Story

* Texas shooting: Joe Horn's 911 call
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2007/12/05/texas-shooting-joe-horn-s-911-call.aspx


Pasadena, Tex., police stand by the body of one of the
two men shot by ...Kar Hlava, Houston Community
NewspapersPasadena, Tex., police stand by the body of
one of the two men shot by ...

At first, Joe Horn appears to be doing his neighbourly
duty. When he sees two men allegedly breaking into a
home on his street in suburban Pasadena, Tex., in the
middle of the day, he dials 911.

But the 61-year-old's call quickly takes a decidedly
unneighbourly turn.

"I've got a shotgun. Do you want me to stop 'em?" he
asks the emergency dispatcher less than 20 seconds
into the call.

"Nope, don't do that," the dispatcher replies. "Ain't
no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Moments later, Mr. Horn defies the dispatcher and
steps outside.

"Move, you're dead!" he can be heard saying on the
Nov. 14 audio recording.

Then comes the sound of several shotgun blasts. Mr.
Horn returns to the telephone.

"Get the law over here quick," he says. "They came in
the front yard with me, man. I had no choice."

Police arrived soon afterward to find two men with
gunshot wounds; both died.

That was three weeks ago, but Mr. Horn has not been
charged with any crime. Police are waiting for a grand
jury to decide whether to indict him. The case has
divided Texans into two camps: Those who support the
shooter's apparent vigilantism and argue his actions
were reasonable under the Second Amendment; and those
who say he is a murderer whose actions may have been
racially motivated.

Mr. Horn is white. The two dead men -- Miguel Antonio
DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30 -- were black.

Pasadena Police expect the grand jury to be convened
in the next few weeks. Meanwhile, tension is mounting.

The New Black Panther Nation, a black activist group,
led nearly 200 protesters to Mr. Horn's otherwise
quiet street for a rally on Sunday. They were met by a
roughly equivalent number of his supporters; bikers
revved their engines to drown out Quanell X, the New
Black Panther Nation's leader, when he tried to speak.

"We don't condone anyone breaking into anybody's home
and stealing. But we also don't condone a citizen
becoming the police, the judge, the jury and the
executioner, all at the same time," Quanell X said in
a telephone interview.

"We believe that a system of law is in place, that
every human being is granted due process in the system
of law. Mr. Horn circumvented that, abandoned that and
literally threw that whole due-process system away."

Local newspapers and radio talk shows have also been
deluged by responses from Mr. Horn's defenders.

"If we had justice like this for all criminals, this
would be a much safer country," one supporter wrote on
YouTube.

"I believe what Joe did was right and I applaud him
for it. And if you're some worthless human being that
has to go steal other people's hard-earned
possessions, you deserve to die."

On the 911 recording, which is widely available on the
Internet, Mr. Horn repeatedly tells the dispatcher he
is not going to let the men get away. At least 11
times, the dispatcher advises him not to leave his
home or shoot.

An investigation is still under way, but a spokesman
for the Pasadena Police said it appears Mr. Horn shot
the two men after he turned a corner and found them in
his yard.

Police estimate he was two to three metres from the
men. One was hit in the chest, another in the side.

The victims began running in opposite directions, but
both soon died, said Captain A. H. "Bud" Corbett. He
described Mr. Horn as sounding "aggressive" in the
recording.

"If Mr. Horn had just walked out and blown away two
people walking by on the sidewalk, he'd have been
locked up, and he probably would have been charged,"
Capt. Corbett said. "But that is not the case."

Tom Lambright, Mr. Horn's lawyer, insists his client
was simply defending himself because the men "made
lunging movements."

"He's trying to protect his own life," Mr. Lambright
said recently. "He's scared."

The recording also indicates Mr. Horn keeps up to date
on his rights. At one point, he lectures the
dispatcher and reminds him he has the right to protect
himself, and "the laws have been changed in this
country since Sept. 1, and you know it and I know it."

This is thought to refer to a new state law
strengthening Texans' right to defend themselves in
their homes, vehicles and workplaces. The so-called
"castle doctrine" took effect on Sept. 1.

Guns are easy to acquire in Texas and most are
unsympathetic to the plight of criminals. The state
leads the U.S. in executions: 405 since the death
penalty was reinstated in the 1970s.

"Texas is a frontier state. It has a lot of tradition
in terms of people being able to protect themselves,"
said Fred Moss, a professor of criminal law at
Southern Methodist University in Dallas.

"What disappoints me is that the vocal minority gives
the image of Texas as being a bunch of gun-toting,
chest-thumping, macho types who think you ought to be
able to gun burglars down as they run away."

If the grand jury decides not to indict Mr. Horn,
Quanell X will lead another march back through the
quiet suburban neighbourhood and directly to his door.

He expects it will be necessary. "We live in the deep
South," he said. "And in the deep South a white man
killing a black men is as common as apple and cherry
pie."


m*s@ nationalpost.com

------------------------------
--
Triad Productions-FantallaAr~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
(http://boblacasse.150m.com/htmlconc .html)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Junkman
2007-12-13 20:55:31 EST
He is a hero !!



Ron
2007-12-23 20:10:42 EST
Howdy from Texas:
Mr. Horn is a hero. The two criminals were illegal aliens.
Our school and emergency rooms are being over run, with only us legal
residents footing the bill. You have to understand, we Texans don't condone
needless violence. However, a growing number of us are starting to feel that
we are being pushed just a little too hard. Before you condemn us, try to
understand, it's not easy to see the place you love getting trampled. What
ever the reason, social, economic or whatever; This country needs to do
something about this problem. Those of us who live in the border states
have the right to not have our way of life destroyed.
Ron



Anon
2007-12-24 01:45:00 EST

"ron" <capncapn2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:68idneCAko5lm_LanZ2dnUVZ_tijnZ2d@trueband.net...
> Howdy from Texas:
> Mr. Horn is a hero. The two criminals were illegal aliens.
> Our school and emergency rooms are being over run, with only us legal
> residents footing the bill. You have to understand, we Texans don't
> condone needless violence. However, a growing number of us are starting to
> feel that we are being pushed just a little too hard. Before you condemn
> us, try to understand, it's not easy to see the place you love getting
> trampled. What ever the reason, social, economic or whatever; This country
> needs to do something about this problem. Those of us who live in the
> border states have the right to not have our way of life destroyed.
> Ron

This is an all too familiar Swan Song, Ron. One of my friends retired and
moved to New Mexico a few years back to bask in the warm climate and enjoy
his retirement. That did NOT happen. He and his wife opened a small floral
shop and over the course of their first six months in business, they were
broken into more than a dozen times. Illegals sneaking over the border did
it and the ones that were caught (by him) were given nothing more than a
slap on the hand and released.
He also complained of small things, such as the Illegals opening his outside
faucet to get a drink and then leaving the faucet running. Water is costly
in these areas and his bill went up immensely. He said they also broke into
his outside storage shed and shit all over the floor. He said it got so bad
that his wife was afraid to walk down their short driveway to get their
mail. Also, his car had been broken into several times and he got to the
point that he'd leave the windows rolled down so the Illegals wouldn't break
them out when they broke in to steal whatever was inside.
He showed me many photos of the damage the Illegals caused and he ended up
selling his home (took a loss) and moved back up north.

I cannot condemn the Texas man who confronted those two. Nor should anybody
else. Was he right? Wrong? Who can say. I do know one thing, however. Those
two thieves will never again violate the sanctity of someone's home. And who
is to say that they would not have injured or killed someone who might have
been in the house at the time?
What that Texas man did can be called crime control. Scratch two scumbags.

Now, if only Pres Bush would get out of the pocket of the Mexican president
and pardon those two Border Patrol officers....




Anon
2007-12-24 01:51:09 EST

"ron" <capncapn2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:68idneCAko5lm_LanZ2dnUVZ_tijnZ2d@trueband.net...
> Howdy from Texas:
> Mr. Horn is a hero. The two criminals were illegal aliens.
> Our school and emergency rooms are being over run, with only us legal
> residents footing the bill. You have to understand, we Texans don't
> condone needless violence. However, a growing number of us are starting to
> feel that we are being pushed just a little too hard. Before you condemn
> us, try to understand, it's not easy to see the place you love getting
> trampled. What ever the reason, social, economic or whatever; This country
> needs to do something about this problem. Those of us who live in the
> border states have the right to not have our way of life destroyed.
> Ron
By the way. These Illegals are taking a huge toll on our local hospitals up
here in the Midwest. Our local hospital posted documentation that Illegals
seeking medical assistance cost the hospital NINE MILLION DOLLARS last year.
And guess who pays for that? We do, via increased insurance costs while
they, the Illegals, give false names and walk away without spending a penny.






Bo Raxo
2007-12-24 03:17:08 EST
On Dec 23, 10:51 pm, "anon" <anon@anon> wrote:
> "ron" <capncapn2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:68idneCAko5lm_LanZ2dnUVZ_tijnZ2d@trueband.net...> Howdy from Texas:
> > Mr. Horn is a hero. The two criminals were illegal aliens.
> > Our school and emergency rooms are being over run, with only us legal
> > residents footing the bill. You have to understand, we Texans don't
> > condone needless violence. However, a growing number of us are starting to
> > feel that we are being pushed just a little too hard. Before you condemn
> > us, try to understand, it's not easy to see the place you love getting
> > trampled. What ever the reason, social, economic or whatever; This country
> > needs to do something about this problem. Those of us who live in the
> > border states have the right to not have our way of life destroyed.
> > Ron
>
> By the way. These Illegals are taking a huge toll on our local hospitals up
> here in the Midwest. Our local hospital posted documentation that Illegals
> seeking medical assistance cost the hospital NINE MILLION DOLLARS last year.
> And guess who pays for that? We do, via increased insurance costs while
> they, the Illegals, give false names and walk away without spending a penny.






Do they not teach economics in Texas? Apparently not.

Well, you're living in the middle of a lesson anybody who took
freshman Econ 101 can figure out:

You have a market for unskilled labor. The jobs don't require legal
status, they pay too little to afford a place to stay, and the
hypocrisy of their status technically being illegal while employers
routinely and on a mass scale hire such workers creates a market for
people who are there to work and don't have a place to live.

Or even the most basic health care - so things that could have been
fixed for under a hundred bucks with a clinic visit ends up costing
the taxpayers a thousand dollars or more of services at an ER, where
everything costs several times as much due to the different delivery
model - oh, whoops, that's a second economics lesson, I should slow
down before I lose you.

Offer jobs right across their border that pay ten times what they can
make at home, and be incredibly lax about enforcing laws against
hiring undocumented workers, letting entire swathes of your economy
routinely use illegals (agriculture, unskilled construction and
gardening, janitorial, etc.). That's an economic formula for all of
those people being there. Blaming them is like blaming people for
creating a traffic jam around a store that offered goods for 90%
off.

Shooting people might make you feel good - or other people doing the
shooting for you, whatever - but it won't change the economic
reality. That's your democratic society that's creating that
economic opportunity - blame your neighbors who hire them and your
government that mostly looks the other way when they do

Come back if you're ever serious - that would mean either the jobs
start paying enough afford a place to live, or you start building some
very, very low cost subsidized housing for itinerant workers.

Guess they don't teach much history in Texas, either. 'Cause it shows
that in the long run capitalism is a powerful thing, more powerful
than guns. Despite a lot of idiots with guns, capitalism managed to
make this country wealthy and strong. Blaming someone who doesn't
have access to a toilet for taking a shit is refusing to acknowledge
the reality of biology as much as it is denying the capitalist reality
that puts him in your town.


Bo Raxo




RD The Sandman
2007-12-24 12:02:05 EST
"ron" <capncapn2000@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:68idneCAko5lm_LanZ2dnUVZ_tijnZ2d@trueband.net:

> Howdy from Texas:
> Mr. Horn is a hero. The two criminals were illegal aliens.

Mr. Horn did not know that.




--
RD (The Sandman)

War is absolute hell.....but to give in
to terrorism is much, much worse

Ron
2007-12-25 11:35:07 EST
Hey Bo
It's one thing to sit in front of a computer and pontificate your
brilliance, try living with this mess.

The reasons we are in this situation is well known to everyone. What we need
are solutions not condemnations of things like our democratic society. It is
eventually going to be our democratic society that fixes this problem. When
the problems we are experiencing down here in Texas start to be felt in the
northern states, I think you will see a changer of attitude and
politics-as-usual.




Robert LaCasse
2007-12-28 02:12:05 EST
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:02:05 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
<rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:

|>"ron" <capncapn2000@yahoo.com> wrote in
|>news:68idneCAko5lm_LanZ2dnUVZ_tijnZ2d@trueband.net:
|>
|>> Howdy from Texas:
|>> Mr. Horn is a hero. The two criminals were illegal aliens.
|>
|>Mr. Horn did not know that.

He might have had an (insight), .........but that is not the real
issue here is it, .......these guys were trespassing in his property and
possibly causing property damages.......

Mr Horn got nailed for defending his "homeland" property, which is
all there is to realize....they did not heed his word/warnings, so they got
hurt in the process of justice.

Maybe the illegal alien status will be a good point in Court
sessions, but the fact is he is going to get burnt ($) by his lawyer and the
courts,.....for defending his right$.....

We all know this stuff, but we keep on following the ATC/CCW rules
and hope that someday it will overshadow the illegal aliens guns, as far as
self protection of life and property is concerned.....

All the big gang wants is mo money for their gang coffers.
--
Triad Productions-Fantalla~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
(http://*remove*members.fortunecity.com/vampire34/htmlconc.html)

Jerry
2007-12-28 14:44:42 EST
In the State of Texas, as of 1 Sep 07, Castle Domain took affect. You no
longer have to "run" away from a fight, you can use deadly force to protect
yours or your neighbors life/property, etc, and you CANNOT be sued by the
perp or his family. What a state.......

"Robert LaCasse" <The_Smoking_Man@MJ12.cid> wrote in message
news:6d89n3papg44hmddsr5mkcn6urbn8e19b5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:02:05 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
> <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> |>"ron" <capncapn2000@yahoo.com> wrote in
> |>news:68idneCAko5lm_LanZ2dnUVZ_tijnZ2d@trueband.net:
> |>
> |>> Howdy from Texas:
> |>> Mr. Horn is a hero. The two criminals were illegal aliens.
> |>
> |>Mr. Horn did not know that.
>
> He might have had an (insight), .........but that is not the real
> issue here is it, .......these guys were trespassing in his property and
> possibly causing property damages.......
>
> Mr Horn got nailed for defending his "homeland" property, which is
> all there is to realize....they did not heed his word/warnings, so they
> got
> hurt in the process of justice.
>
> Maybe the illegal alien status will be a good point in Court
> sessions, but the fact is he is going to get burnt ($) by his lawyer and
> the
> courts,.....for defending his right$.....
>
> We all know this stuff, but we keep on following the ATC/CCW rules
> and hope that someday it will overshadow the illegal aliens guns, as far
> as
> self protection of life and property is concerned.....
>
> All the big gang wants is mo money for their gang coffers.
> --
> Triad Productions-Fantalla~EZine~ParaNovel
> National Association of Assault Research
> (http://*remove*members.fortunecity.com/vampire34/htmlconc.html)


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