Activism Discussion: Retired FBI Agent: Waterboarding Produced 'crap' Information From Detainee

Retired FBI Agent: Waterboarding Produced 'crap' Information From Detainee
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John
2007-12-18 15:56:53 EST
Retired FBI agent: Waterboarding produced 'crap' information from detainee
12/18/2007 @ 9:02 am
Filed by Nick Juliano




FBI interrogators suspected CIA's aim was to 'belittle' detainee with harsh
treatment
Contradicting the assertions of President Bush and waterboarding advocates
at the CIA, federal investigators say a suspected al Qaeda operative who was
subjected to the simulated drowning technique produced increasingly
unreliable information after his interrogators began treating him harshly.

Abu Zubaida was captured in 2002 and moved through the CIA's secret prison
system for much of that year. Although the FBI says Zubaida was a fairly
low-level associate of some al Qaeda players, the CIA was convinced that he
actually was a high-level terrorist who simply was holding out on them.

They turned to waterboarding and other unknown harsh interrogation
techniques in an attempt to break the suspect, but ended up producing little
more than a stream of specious claims delivered under duress from a suspect
who was having water forced into his lungs, according to a former
investigator who reviewed his case file.

"I don't have confidence in anything he says, because once you go down that
road, everything you say is tainted," retired FBI agent Daniel Coleman told
the Washington Post, referring to the harsh measures. "He was talking before
they did that to him, but they didn't believe him. The problem is they
didn't realize he didn't know all that much."

Zubaida's interrogation and harsh treatment were recorded by the CIA, but
the evidence of what, if any, actionable intelligence he delivered under
conditions critics liken to torture disappeared in 2005, when the agency
destroyed hundreds of hours of videotapes depicting similar interrogations.

Captured at a suspected al Qaeda safe house in Pakistan on Mar. 28, 2002,
Zubaida was soon identified and whisked off to the CIA's network of secret
prisons. He had been named as a fellow plotter in a failed 1999 attempt to
bomb the Los Angeles airport, and the 9/11 Commission said he was a
"longtime ally of bin Laden" who helped run a terrorist training camp in
Afghanistan before the Sept. 11 attacks.

In his first month of captivity, report the Post's Dan Eggen and Walter
Pincus, Zubaida handed over information that led to the capture of Jose
Padilla and identified Khalid Sheik Mohammed as a 9/11 plotter.

That was all before the CIA turned to harsh techniques. Instead of
continuing what appeared to be working, though, the CIA was convinced
Zubaida was holding out on them, and they decided to begin "not torturing"
him by keeping him naked in his cell, subjecting him to extreme cold and
playing loud rock music at all hours.

FBI agents had been pleased with Zubaida's earlier disclosures but were
dismayed by the harsh treatment he was then subjected to.

"They said, 'You've got to be kidding me,'" Coleman told Eggen and Pincus,
recalling accounts from FBI employees who were there. "'This guy's a Muslim.
That's not going to win his confidence. Are you trying to get information
out of him or just belittle him?'" Coleman helped lead the bureau's efforts
against Osama bin Laden for a decade, ending in 2004.

The FBI team eventually had to drop out of the interrogation because they,
unlike the CIA, were prohibited from participating in the harsh treatment.

"Whether harsh tactics were used on Abu Zubaida prior to official legal
authorization by the Justice Department is unclear. Officials at the CIA say
all its tactics were lawful. An Aug. 1 Justice document later known as the
'torture memo' narrowly defined what constituted illegal abuse," report
Eggen and Pincus. "It was accompanied by another memo that laid out a list
of allowable tactics for the CIA, including waterboarding, according to
numerous officials."

For its part, the CIA says the harsh interrogation helped extract
information from Abu Zubaida. Retired CIA officer John Kiriakou claimed that
waterboarding -- which he now considers torture -- probably saved lives.
Kirakou participated in Abu Zubaida's capture and saw classified reports of
the agency's harsh interrogation.

Former CIA director George Tenet wrote in his memoirs that claims Abu
Zubaida was over-valued were "baloney" and claimed the captured operative
was "at the crossroads of many al Qaeda operations" and shared critical
information.

Coleman told the Post that much of Abu Zubaida's information on pending
threats, which he provided under harsh interrogation, "was crap." Coleman
and others in the FBI believed Abu Zubaida had mental problems and was
little more than a lackey within al Qaeda who claimed to know more than he
really did about the terror organization.

"They all knew he was crazy, and they knew he was always on the damn phone,"
Coleman said, referring to al-Qaeda operatives. "You think they're going to
tell him anything?"



http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Retired_FBI_agent_Waterboarding_produced_crap_1218.html



Neolibertarian
2007-12-18 21:51:01 EST
In article <puW9j.6933$1X.507@trndny07>, "John" <JohnDsena@nmail.comx>
wrote:

> Retired FBI agent: Waterboarding produced 'crap' information from detainee
> 12/18/2007 @ 9:02 am
> Filed by Nick Juliano

> FBI interrogators suspected CIA's aim was to 'belittle' detainee with harsh
> treatment

Most of the "controversy" surrounding the treatment of detainees at
Gitmo originally came from FBI "leaks."

9/11 had more consequences than Average Joe Sixpack can readily discern.
For instance, the turf war between FBI and America's other intelligence
services is not well understood outside the beltway. How 9/11
exasperated this war is only evident to most of us through such
obviously malicious leaks.

This turf war was far less visible during the days of Hoover--his now
famous strong arm tactics were kept completely quiet and hidden from the
public.

Not so any longer.

The FBI is a monstrosity and should be dismantled at the earliest
opportunity. The Bureau only became as bloated as it is today because
Hoover was a warped, twisted and relentless empire builder.

The FBI, as it is today, is both superfluous and unconstitutional. It
should be replaced with a computer (which would finally serve the
function it was originally instituted to fulfill).

I realize this all constitutes the irrelevance fallacy, but it needs to
be said once in a while.

--
NeoLibertarian

http://www.elihu.envy.nu/NeoPics/UncleHood.jpg

Don Ocean
2007-12-18 23:39:23 EST
Neolibertarian wrote:
> In article <puW9j.6933$1X.507@trndny07>, "John" <JohnDsena@nmail.comx>
> wrote:
>
>> Retired FBI agent: Waterboarding produced 'crap' information from detainee
>> 12/18/2007 @ 9:02 am
>> Filed by Nick Juliano
>
>> FBI interrogators suspected CIA's aim was to 'belittle' detainee with harsh
>> treatment
>
> Most of the "controversy" surrounding the treatment of detainees at
> Gitmo originally came from FBI "leaks."
>
> 9/11 had more consequences than Average Joe Sixpack can readily discern.
> For instance, the turf war between FBI and America's other intelligence
> services is not well understood outside the beltway. How 9/11
> exasperated this war is only evident to most of us through such
> obviously malicious leaks.
>
> This turf war was far less visible during the days of Hoover--his now
> famous strong arm tactics were kept completely quiet and hidden from the
> public.
>
> Not so any longer.
>
> The FBI is a monstrosity and should be dismantled at the earliest
> opportunity. The Bureau only became as bloated as it is today because
> Hoover was a warped, twisted and relentless empire builder.
>
> The FBI, as it is today, is both superfluous and unconstitutional. It
> should be replaced with a computer (which would finally serve the
> function it was originally instituted to fulfill).
>
> I realize this all constitutes the irrelevance fallacy, but it needs to
> be said once in a while.

And your a fucking Idiot.. Under Hoover we did not have these massive
leaks and spies were dealt with rather then kissed and sent back to
Israel with a fruit basket. Hoover denied secret clearances to
Homosexuals.. and held bastards like LBJ up to the light of truth.
For which he, himself was branded a Homosexual by LBJ and the Jewish
press. Hoover was very good at weasling out the crooked congressman and
Senators. We need that again.. If we were to clean out both houses, of
corruptions.. There would only be the Janitors left! The FBI was a proud
place to work in his days! Now we have a dual nationality Jew as the
Czar of all intelligence.. Thanks to that traitorous bastard Bush. Both
he and his Daddy should be tried and stood up against a wall and shot.
Like all career criminals ..All assets should be seized and used to
replenish what they have stolen from American and its patriotic
citizens. Waterboard Congress to find out what their involvement in an
illegal war is!
>

Neolibertarian
2007-12-19 23:49:11 EST
In article <5srldiF1antljU1@mid.individual.net>,
Don Ocean <ocean@amerion.com> wrote:

> Neolibertarian wrote:
> > In article <puW9j.6933$1X.507@trndny07>, "John" <JohnDsena@nmail.comx>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Retired FBI agent: Waterboarding produced 'crap' information from detainee
> >> 12/18/2007 @ 9:02 am
> >> Filed by Nick Juliano
> >
> >> FBI interrogators suspected CIA's aim was to 'belittle' detainee with
> >> harsh
> >> treatment
> >
> > Most of the "controversy" surrounding the treatment of detainees at
> > Gitmo originally came from FBI "leaks."
> >
> > 9/11 had more consequences than Average Joe Sixpack can readily discern.
> > For instance, the turf war between FBI and America's other intelligence
> > services is not well understood outside the beltway. How 9/11
> > exasperated this war is only evident to most of us through such
> > obviously malicious leaks.
> >
> > This turf war was far less visible during the days of Hoover--his now
> > famous strong arm tactics were kept completely quiet and hidden from the
> > public.
> >
> > Not so any longer.
> >
> > The FBI is a monstrosity and should be dismantled at the earliest
> > opportunity. The Bureau only became as bloated as it is today because
> > Hoover was a warped, twisted and relentless empire builder.
> >
> > The FBI, as it is today, is both superfluous and unconstitutional. It
> > should be replaced with a computer (which would finally serve the
> > function it was originally instituted to fulfill).
> >
> > I realize this all constitutes the irrelevance fallacy, but it needs to
> > be said once in a while.
>
> And your a fucking Idiot.

What about my fucking idiot?

Just kidding.

> Under Hoover

Organized crime grew and grew and grew, along with the size of Hoover's
bloated, useless empire.

There is no good reason to keep the FBI around now that he's dead.

Reduce it back to a handful of Justice Department investigators, and
forget the unconstitutional idea of a Federal police force.

Why are you defending Hoover, anyway? Were you a "Junior G-Man" when you
were a kid or something?

--
NeoLibertarian

http://www.elihu.envy.nu/NeoPics/UncleHood.jpg

Don Ocean
2007-12-20 04:12:21 EST
Neolibertarian wrote:
> In article <5srldiF1antljU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Don Ocean <ocean@amerion.com> wrote:
>
>> Neolibertarian wrote:
>>> In article <puW9j.6933$1X.507@trndny07>, "John" <JohnDsena@nmail.comx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Retired FBI agent: Waterboarding produced 'crap' information from detainee
>>>> 12/18/2007 @ 9:02 am
>>>> Filed by Nick Juliano
>>>> FBI interrogators suspected CIA's aim was to 'belittle' detainee with
>>>> harsh
>>>> treatment
>>> Most of the "controversy" surrounding the treatment of detainees at
>>> Gitmo originally came from FBI "leaks."
>>>
>>> 9/11 had more consequences than Average Joe Sixpack can readily discern.
>>> For instance, the turf war between FBI and America's other intelligence
>>> services is not well understood outside the beltway. How 9/11
>>> exasperated this war is only evident to most of us through such
>>> obviously malicious leaks.
>>>
>>> This turf war was far less visible during the days of Hoover--his now
>>> famous strong arm tactics were kept completely quiet and hidden from the
>>> public.
>>>
>>> Not so any longer.
>>>
>>> The FBI is a monstrosity and should be dismantled at the earliest
>>> opportunity. The Bureau only became as bloated as it is today because
>>> Hoover was a warped, twisted and relentless empire builder.
>>>
>>> The FBI, as it is today, is both superfluous and unconstitutional. It
>>> should be replaced with a computer (which would finally serve the
>>> function it was originally instituted to fulfill).
>>>
>>> I realize this all constitutes the irrelevance fallacy, but it needs to
>>> be said once in a while.
>> And your a fucking Idiot.
>
> What about my fucking idiot?
>
> Just kidding.
>
>> Under Hoover
>
> Organized crime grew and grew and grew, along with the size of Hoover's
> bloated, useless empire.

Did it? If you mean Artmand Hammer, Joseph Kennedy, Al Gore Sr
ete..etc./. Don't you think that was a congressional protectorate of
criminals?
>
> There is no good reason to keep the FBI around now that he's dead.

Actually it was the FBI that outed the CIA's torture chambers..We need
them now, more then ever.


>
> Reduce it back to a handful of Justice Department investigators, and
> forget the unconstitutional idea of a Federal police force.

Oh wow.. Put it right back into the hands of the Mossad..?
You definitely are not a patriot to America and its constitution. I
doubt if you have ever even been near the military.

>
> Why are you defending Hoover, anyway? Were you a "Junior G-Man" when you
> were a kid or something?

Obviously you are not into the real history of things.. What would you
know about anything any way.. Canuckistan is in a shit storm of its own.
Perhaps you should tend to your own problems before you stick your nose
in America's business.
>

Neolibertarian
2007-12-20 20:28:10 EST
In article <5supvoF1b1a3uU1@mid.individual.net>,
Don Ocean <ocean@amerion.com> wrote:

> Neolibertarian wrote:
> > In article <5srldiF1antljU1@mid.individual.net>,
> > Don Ocean <ocean@amerion.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Neolibertarian wrote:
> >>> In article <puW9j.6933$1X.507@trndny07>, "John" <JohnDsena@nmail.comx>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Retired FBI agent: Waterboarding produced 'crap' information from
> >>>> detainee
> >>>> 12/18/2007 @ 9:02 am
> >>>> Filed by Nick Juliano
> >>>> FBI interrogators suspected CIA's aim was to 'belittle' detainee with
> >>>> harsh
> >>>> treatment
> >>> Most of the "controversy" surrounding the treatment of detainees at
> >>> Gitmo originally came from FBI "leaks."
> >>>
> >>> 9/11 had more consequences than Average Joe Sixpack can readily discern.
> >>> For instance, the turf war between FBI and America's other intelligence
> >>> services is not well understood outside the beltway. How 9/11
> >>> exasperated this war is only evident to most of us through such
> >>> obviously malicious leaks.
> >>>
> >>> This turf war was far less visible during the days of Hoover--his now
> >>> famous strong arm tactics were kept completely quiet and hidden from the
> >>> public.
> >>>
> >>> Not so any longer.
> >>>
> >>> The FBI is a monstrosity and should be dismantled at the earliest
> >>> opportunity. The Bureau only became as bloated as it is today because
> >>> Hoover was a warped, twisted and relentless empire builder.
> >>>
> >>> The FBI, as it is today, is both superfluous and unconstitutional. It
> >>> should be replaced with a computer (which would finally serve the
> >>> function it was originally instituted to fulfill).
> >>>
> >>> I realize this all constitutes the irrelevance fallacy, but it needs to
> >>> be said once in a while.
> >> And your a fucking Idiot.
> >
> > What about my fucking idiot?
> >
> > Just kidding.
> >
> >> Under Hoover
> >
> > Organized crime grew and grew and grew, along with the size of Hoover's
> > bloated, useless empire.
>
> Did it? If you mean Artmand Hammer, Joseph Kennedy, Al Gore Sr
> ete..etc./. Don't you think that was a congressional protectorate of
> criminals?

Joe Kennedy was the mob. The others' connections to expansion of
organized crime are not as clear cut as, say, J. Edgar Hoovers.

Lot's of men helped the rise of organized crime--none as much as their
customers and clients.
> >
> > There is no good reason to keep the FBI around now that he's dead.
>
> Actually it was the FBI that outed the CIA's torture chambers..

Yes, I know. Which is why I stuck my oar in this thread.

> We need
> them now, more then ever.

Yes, we DO need those torture chambers more than ever. Which is why we
don't need the G-Men interfering.
> >
> > Reduce it back to a handful of Justice Department investigators, and
> > forget the unconstitutional idea of a Federal police force.
>
> Oh wow.. Put it right back into the hands of the Mossad..?

Wrong country.

Local police are quite adequate. According to my State Constitution, I
am the local police, anyway. It that way in yours too. by the way--no
matter in which state you live.

> You definitely are not a patriot to America and its constitution.

I'm a patriot to my Constitution.

> I
> doubt if you have ever even been near the military.

All my life.
>
> >
> > Why are you defending Hoover, anyway? Were you a "Junior G-Man" when you
> > were a kid or something?
>
> Obviously you are not into the real history of things..

Obviously.

> What would you
> know about anything any way..

Good question.

> Canuckistan is in a shit storm of its own.
> Perhaps you should tend to your own problems before you stick your nose
> in America's business.

It's the FBI sticking its nose into America's business which I object to.

--
NeoLibertarian

http://www.elihu.envy.nu/NeoPics/UncleHood.jpg
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