Activism Discussion: Plan Of Campaign, Election 2010

Plan Of Campaign, Election 2010
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I&R ~ GB
2010-02-14 10:08:05 EST
Plan of campaign, which all can join, to highlight our demand for
stronger democracy with referendum called by voters.

SEE LINK
Election UK 2010: Democracy Reform Campaign
http://www.iniref.org/index.enter.html

Spread the Plan.



Soupdragon
2010-02-15 08:43:57 EST
I&R ~ GB <infoTAKE@OUTiniref.org> wrote in news:7tqhkvFif6U1@mid.uni-
berlin.de:

> Plan of campaign, which all can join, to highlight our demand for
> stronger democracy with referendum called by voters.
>

Mmm. Turn Britain into a new Switzerland - a country with a questionable
record on rights, and described by a political pundit who lived there
for a year as 'the closest any democratic country has ever come to a
police state' as a result of a bewildering array of citizens initiatives
making their way into law.

No thanks.

I&R ~ GB
2010-02-15 10:26:07 EST
soupdragon wrote:
> I&R ~ GB <infoTAKE@OUTiniref.org> wrote
>
>> Plan of campaign, which all can join, to highlight our demand for
>> stronger democracy with referendum called by voters.
>>
>
> Mmm. Turn Britain into a new Switzerland - a country with a questionable
> record on rights, and described by a political pundit who lived there
> for a year as 'the closest any democratic country has ever come to a
> police state' as a result of a bewildering array of citizens initiatives
> making their way into law. Please spread this like wild-fire.

>
> No thanks.

methinks this dragon doth dislike good cheese, chocolate and
confidential banking ;-)

Why we in GB+NI need democracy, an example:

<blockquote>Trust between the people and politicians has broken down,
but the demon­strations should give us reasons for hope, not
disillusionment. Most major political advances in the UK and abroad have
come through protest, whether it is women's rights or civil rights. Wars
corrode our political system. But protest is the engine of democracy,
and may again be our best, if not only, hope.</blockquote> From:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/15/irq-war-protest-iran

There is no reason why her majesty's government should pay any attention
to protest demonstrations. Protest can help to publicise a cause but it
may have no effect on government policy and action.

Democracy can be designed better than ours, to enable expression of the
will of the people. Elements of citizen-led democracy would enhance the
current system of political parties and parliaments.

For instance, if the half-million or more anti-war protestors' votes had
appeared on a citizens' law proposal (or veto), the Iraq invasion could
have been stopped by calling a plebiscite (binding ballot). Many more
areas of public policy could also be addressed by an electorate more
empowered in this way.

For more detail see http://www.iniref.org/index.enter.html


Harry Merrick
2010-02-15 11:29:36 EST
I&R ~ GB wrote:
> soupdragon wrote:
>> I&R ~ GB <infoTAKE@OUTiniref.org> wrote
>>
>>> Plan of campaign, which all can join, to highlight our demand for
>>> stronger democracy with referendum called by voters.
>>>
>>
>> Mmm. Turn Britain into a new Switzerland - a country with a
>> questionable record on rights, and described by a political pundit
>> who lived there for a year as 'the closest any democratic country
>> has ever come to a police state' as a result of a bewildering array
>> of citizens initiatives making their way into law. Please spread
>> this like wild-fire.
>
>>
>> No thanks.
>
> methinks this dragon doth dislike good cheese, chocolate and
> confidential banking ;-)
>
> Why we in GB+NI need democracy, an example:

We actually "do" have democracy, but it has been so watered down and
corrupted that it doesn't work as it should in a modern society.

>
> <blockquote>Trust between the people and politicians has broken down,
> but the demon­strations should give us reasons for hope, not
> disillusionment.

Demonstrations certainly do absolutely nothing for me! Just a picture of a
mindless mob being led by the nose by factions with hidden agenda's.

>Most major political advances in the UK and abroad
> have come through protest, whether it is women's rights or civil
> rights.

I would hardly call Womens Rights OR Civil Rights "THAT" important in fact.
Hardly major political advances as such. Civil Rights have very often been
the cause of disorder and lawbreaking, which is most certainly not
democratic.

>Wars corrode our political system.

Started by our politicians who WE democratically elect to make those sorts
of decisions.

>But protest is the engine
> of democracy, and may again be our best, if not only,
> hope.</blockquote> From:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/15/irq-war-protest-iran

Iran and other backward countries are not included in the argument here.
They are ruled by tyrants with complete control. The only answer there is
rebellion, which is a much stronger form of protest and which, if
cuccessful, will be followed by democracy of some sort. As for the Guardian!
Well, a more trendy lefty rag is hard to find. Minority opinions yet again.

Like voting, Protesting is done by a minority of folk, not even well
informed folk. If Parliament decided to agree to the wishes of protestors in
the face of good debate, why then we would be in the grips of mob rule. No
thanks!

>
> There is no reason why her majesty's government should pay any
> attention to protest demonstrations. Protest can help to publicise a
> cause but it may have no effect on government policy and action.

Indeed. It is far far more important that everyone eligible to vote does in
fact vote. No Government has ever been elected by a majority of the
population who has voted as they should.

>
> Democracy can be designed better than ours, to enable expression of
> the will of the people. Elements of citizen-led democracy would
> enhance the current system of political parties and parliaments.

Protesters do NOT represent the wishes of the majority of the population.

>
> For instance, if the half-million or more anti-war protestors' votes
> had appeared on a citizens' law proposal (or veto), the Iraq invasion
> could have been stopped by calling a plebiscite (binding ballot).
> Many more areas of public policy could also be addressed by an
> electorate more empowered in this way.

"You" happen to believe that the Iraq war was wrong, many many more do not
agree with you. If this war or any other war had been stopped due to
protests, then that is non-democratic as it would be the will of the
minority, and is rule by the ignorant and uneducated mob. NO thanks.

The real answer just has to be that "everyone" entitled to vote just "has"
to go and vote! It is disloyal and traitorous to the country NOT to vote.
Doesn't matter which party. The important thing is the democratic vote. That
way, New Labour would not have got in last time and we would not be in the
mess we are in today. We also would not be in danger of a hung parliament
next time, and would have a strong government to rule us. Perhaps we should
do what other countries do, and make it illegal NOT to vote, enforced by
law. Personally, I reckon that would be a good idea. One man one vote is the
democratic way, but it "must" mean that everyone eligible votes. All these
fixes and alternative voting methods such as PR are just not on, and are
undemocratic.

--
Harry Merrick.


I&R ~ GB
2010-02-15 12:30:32 EST
Harry Merrick wrote:
>> There is no reason why her majesty's government should pay any
>> attention to protest demonstrations. Protest can help to publicise a
>> cause but it may have no effect on government policy and action.
>
> Indeed. It is far far more important that everyone eligible to vote does
> in fact vote. No Government has ever been elected by a majority of the
> population who has voted as they should.
>
>>
>> Democracy can be designed better than ours, to enable expression of
>> the will of the people. Elements of citizen-led democracy would
>> enhance the current system of political parties and parliaments.
>
> Protesters do NOT represent the wishes of the majority of the population.

I&R ~ GB: We referred to the anti-war protest because it provides an
example of a body of opinion large enough to trigger a referendum (in
places which have the necessary instrument of democracy, known as the
citizens' initiative, defined here http://www.iniref.org/about.html).
The issue could have been EU constitution, Poll Tax or many others. The
proposers ("protestors") cannot decide anything, only the whole
electorate in referendum (aka plebiscite or binding ballot).

>> For instance, if the half-million or more anti-war protestors' votes
>> had appeared on a citizens' law proposal (or veto), the Iraq invasion
>> could have been stopped by calling a plebiscite (binding ballot).
>> Many more areas of public policy could also be addressed by an
>> electorate more empowered in this way.
>
> "You" happen to believe that the Iraq war was wrong, many many more do
> not agree with you.

The Campaign I&R ~ GB iniref.org for whom we write here does not take up
or advocate particular issues or causes. We have no position on the Iraq
war. We advocate only democracy reform.

If this war or any other war had been stopped due to
> protests, then that is non-democratic as it would be the will of the
> minority, and is rule by the ignorant and uneducated mob. NO thanks.

Again, see above, with the sort of citizen-led democracy which we at
iniref.org advocate, the proposers of a law or veto cannot decide
anything or enact any law. An agreed large number of citizens may put
forward a proposal. If a referendum is called on the proposal then the
whole electorate makes the decision.

I&R ~ GB Citizens' Initiative and Referendum
Campaign for direct democracy in Britain
http://www.iniref.org/index.enter.html
http://www.iniref.org/blog.html

Soupdragon
2010-02-15 16:53:45 EST
I&R ~ GB <infoTAKE@OUTiniref.org> wrote in news:7tt72oFkeqU1@mid.uni-
berlin.de:

> soupdragon wrote:
>> I&R ~ GB <infoTAKE@OUTiniref.org> wrote
>>
>>> Plan of campaign, which all can join, to highlight our demand for
>>> stronger democracy with referendum called by voters.
>>>
>>
>> Mmm. Turn Britain into a new Switzerland - a country with a
questionable
>> record on rights, and described by a political pundit who lived there
>> for a year as 'the closest any democratic country has ever come to a
>> police state' as a result of a bewildering array of citizens
initiatives
>> making their way into law. Please spread this like wild-fire.
>
>>
>> No thanks.
>
> methinks this dragon doth dislike good cheese, chocolate

Oh I like cheese and chocolate - Belgian and French specifically

> and
> confidential banking ;-)

Confidential banking, eh? the only people who need that are crooks
and war criminals.

The only thing the Swiss have come up with is the cuckoo clock
and legal suicide. Perhaps the latter tells us something about
the mindset of a people living in a country that effectively
closes at 9pm every night and a virtual police state.

Lofty
2010-02-16 16:12:46 EST
Time saving information.

A new user of newsgroups? Well I have information which will
save you a great deal of time and effort. It is about this and
other newsgroups in the <uk.> hierarchy.

It is now general knowledge that this newsgroup was set up
by the government to plug the gaps created by the abysmal
failure of their Psychiatric Care in the Community Policy.
The uk.hierarchy was devised to provide an outlet for
individuals who would otherwise spending their days sitting
at home wearing an aluminium foil hat waiting for a full moon
to rise. It was hoped that this would reduce the incidence
of nutters out there howling at the moon and frightening the
shit out of their neighbours. Another of HMGs aims and
objectives was to provide a distraction to take their minds
of the problem of who they were going to knife to death next.
Unfortunately, this group has been taken over by the
articulate lower middle classes who have succeeding in
driving HMGs target audience away.Independant research has
shown that it was the amount and quality of the inane drivel,
called small talk which the middle classes are adept at, which
had the effect of doing their heads in. They left to
protect what was left of their sanity. Saddly this has happened
to the whole of uk.hierarchy.

This newsgroup is a very good example of another HMG failure.



On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:43:57 +0000 (UTC), soupdragon wrote:

> I&R ~ GB <infoTAKE@OUTiniref.org> wrote in news:7tqhkvFif6U1@mid.uni-
> berlin.de:
>
>> Plan of campaign, which all can join, to highlight our demand for
>> stronger democracy with referendum called by voters.
>>
>
> Mmm. Turn Britain into a new Switzerland - a country with a questionable
> record on rights, and described by a political pundit who lived there
> for a year as 'the closest any democratic country has ever come to a
> police state' as a result of a bewildering array of citizens initiatives
> making their way into law.
>
> No thanks.
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