Activism Discussion: Port Shutdown--truckers Angry And Longshoreman, Longshoreman Angry At OWS Protestors. We Need To Unite You Fools!

Port Shutdown--truckers Angry And Longshoreman, Longshoreman Angry At OWS Protestors. We Need To Unite You Fools!
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Tim Howard
2011-12-15 03:17:06 EST
Perhaps the biased media only showed those who were being divisive
during the West Coast port shutdown. From what I saw, it was another
example of people who should have like-minded interests angry at each
other instead of the real enemies. I saw several quickie interviews
with long-haul truckers criticizing the Oakland Port shutdown, and
actions at similar ports in solidarity along the West Coast. All the
truckers shown in the media seemed opposed to the strike because it was
hurting their finances. In related coverage, spokespersons for the ILWU
said they basically did not want members of the Occupation movement at
their ports. I heard on spokesman say their struggle against the
managers "was just that, our struggle." They did not not want OWS
somehow co-opting them. Of course this reminds me of many in the
occupation movement who do not want to associate with other liberal and
left-wing groups because they see them as too establishment and worry
about being co-opted.

Activists on the left and laborers should quit this attitude of "my
struggle" because it sounds like they have a club mentality. They need
to work together. I don't like most clubs because they keep people out,
they are selective. Why would the longshoreman want to keep this
struggle to themselves, like it was precious metal, when others are
offering to help. Without OWS protestors, could they have closed down
any of those ports? And the truckers--shame on them for not supporting
their fellow "blue-collar" workers. One labor organization's struggle
should be everyone's struggle. They worry about loosing money? Well I
got news for you, no movement is successful without some sacrifice. OWS
seems to finally be wising up and trying to work with some other groups,
but too many think everyone is the enemy. We are all in this fight
together!

Strabo
2011-12-15 21:08:00 EST
On 12/15/2011 3:17 AM, Tim Howard wrote:
> Perhaps the biased media only showed those who were being divisive
> during the West Coast port shutdown. From what I saw, it was another
> example of people who should have like-minded interests angry at each
> other instead of the real enemies. I saw several quickie interviews with
> long-haul truckers criticizing the Oakland Port shutdown, and actions at
> similar ports in solidarity along the West Coast. All the truckers shown
> in the media seemed opposed to the strike because it was hurting their
> finances. In related coverage, spokespersons for the ILWU said they
> basically did not want members of the Occupation movement at their
> ports. I heard on spokesman say their struggle against the managers "was
> just that, our struggle." They did not not want OWS somehow co-opting
> them. Of course this reminds me of many in the occupation movement who
> do not want to associate with other liberal and left-wing groups because
> they see them as too establishment and worry about being co-opted.
>
> Activists on the left and laborers should quit this attitude of "my
> struggle" because it sounds like they have a club mentality. They need
> to work together. I don't like most clubs because they keep people out,
> they are selective. Why would the longshoreman want to keep this
> struggle to themselves, like it was precious metal, when others are
> offering to help. Without OWS protestors, could they have closed down
> any of those ports? And the truckers--shame on them for not supporting
> their fellow "blue-collar" workers. One labor organization's struggle
> should be everyone's struggle. They worry about loosing money? Well I
> got news for you, no movement is successful without some sacrifice. OWS
> seems to finally be wising up and trying to work with some other groups,
> but too many think everyone is the enemy. We are all in this fight
> together!
>

What fight?





Tim Howard
2011-12-15 23:25:16 EST
On 12/15/2011 6:08 PM, Strabo wrote:
> On 12/15/2011 3:17 AM, Tim Howard wrote:
>> Perhaps the biased media only showed those who were being divisive
>> during the West Coast port shutdown. From what I saw, it was another
>> example of people who should have like-minded interests angry at each
>> other instead of the real enemies. I saw several quickie interviews with
>> long-haul truckers criticizing the Oakland Port shutdown, and actions at
>> similar ports in solidarity along the West Coast. All the truckers shown
>> in the media seemed opposed to the strike because it was hurting their
>> finances. In related coverage, spokespersons for the ILWU said they
>> basically did not want members of the Occupation movement at their
>> ports. I heard on spokesman say their struggle against the managers "was
>> just that, our struggle." They did not not want OWS somehow co-opting
>> them. Of course this reminds me of many in the occupation movement who
>> do not want to associate with other liberal and left-wing groups because
>> they see them as too establishment and worry about being co-opted.
>>
>> Activists on the left and laborers should quit this attitude of "my
>> struggle" because it sounds like they have a club mentality. They need
>> to work together. I don't like most clubs because they keep people out,
>> they are selective. Why would the longshoreman want to keep this
>> struggle to themselves, like it was precious metal, when others are
>> offering to help. Without OWS protestors, could they have closed down
>> any of those ports? And the truckers--shame on them for not supporting
>> their fellow "blue-collar" workers. One labor organization's struggle
>> should be everyone's struggle. They worry about loosing money? Well I
>> got news for you, no movement is successful without some sacrifice. OWS
>> seems to finally be wising up and trying to work with some other groups,
>> but too many think everyone is the enemy. We are all in this fight
>> together!
> >
>
> What fight?
>
The fight against injustice perpetrated by the 1%. The fight against
corporatism.


Anonymous
2011-12-26 01:25:48 EST
Strabo <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote :

> On 12/15/2011 3:17 AM, Tim Howard wrote:
>> Perhaps the biased media only showed those who were being divisive
>> during the West Coast port shutdown. From what I saw, it was another
>> example of people who should have like-minded interests angry at each
>> other instead of the real enemies. I saw several quickie interviews with
>> long-haul truckers criticizing the Oakland Port shutdown, and actions at
>> similar ports in solidarity along the West Coast. All the truckers shown
>> in the media seemed opposed to the strike because it was hurting their
>> finances. In related coverage, spokespersons for the ILWU said they
>> basically did not want members of the Occupation movement at their
>> ports. I heard on spokesman say their struggle against the managers "was
>> just that, our struggle." They did not not want OWS somehow co-opting
>> them. Of course this reminds me of many in the occupation movement who
>> do not want to associate with other liberal and left-wing groups because
>> they see them as too establishment and worry about being co-opted.
>>
>> Activists on the left and laborers should quit this attitude of "my
>> struggle" because it sounds like they have a club mentality. They need
>> to work together. I don't like most clubs because they keep people out,
>> they are selective. Why would the longshoreman want to keep this
>> struggle to themselves, like it was precious metal, when others are
>> offering to help. Without OWS protestors, could they have closed down
>> any of those ports? And the truckers--shame on them for not supporting
>> their fellow "blue-collar" workers. One labor organization's struggle
>> should be everyone's struggle. They worry about loosing money? Well I
>> got news for you, no movement is successful without some sacrifice. OWS
>> seems to finally be wising up and trying to work with some other groups,
>> but too many think everyone is the enemy. We are all in this fight
>> together!
> >
>
> What fight?

The fight for global marxism, apparently!




Stan De SD
2011-12-28 13:16:46 EST
On Dec 15, 8:25 pm, Tim Howard <tim.how...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
> On 12/15/2011 6:08 PM, Strabo wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 12/15/2011 3:17 AM, Tim Howard wrote:
> >> Perhaps the biased media only showed those who were being divisive
> >> during the West Coast port shutdown. From what I saw, it was another
> >> example of people who should have like-minded interests angry at each
> >> other instead of the real enemies. I saw several quickie interviews with
> >> long-haul truckers criticizing the Oakland Port shutdown, and actions at
> >> similar ports in solidarity along the West Coast. All the truckers shown
> >> in the media seemed opposed to the strike because it was hurting their
> >> finances. In related coverage, spokespersons for the ILWU said they
> >> basically did not want members of the Occupation movement at their
> >> ports. I heard on spokesman say their struggle against the managers "was
> >> just that, our struggle." They did not not want OWS somehow co-opting
> >> them. Of course this reminds me of many in the occupation movement who
> >> do not want to associate with other liberal and left-wing groups because
> >> they see them as too establishment and worry about being co-opted.
>
> >> Activists on the left and laborers should quit this attitude of "my
> >> struggle" because it sounds like they have a club mentality. They need
> >> to work together. I don't like most clubs because they keep people out,
> >> they are selective. Why would the longshoreman want to keep this
> >> struggle to themselves, like it was precious metal, when others are
> >> offering to help. Without OWS protestors, could they have closed down
> >> any of those ports? And the truckers--shame on them for not supporting
> >> their fellow "blue-collar" workers. One labor organization's struggle
> >> should be everyone's struggle. They worry about loosing money? Well I
> >> got news for you, no movement is successful without some sacrifice. OWS
> >> seems to finally be wising up and trying to work with some other groups,
> >> but too many think everyone is the enemy. We are all in this fight
> >> together!
>
> > What fight?
>
> The fight against injustice perpetrated by the 1%.  The fight against
> corporatism.

You mean the fight against the producers in the world, you miserable
little parasite.

Tim Howard
2011-12-29 01:49:49 EST
On 12/28/2011 10:16 AM, Stan de SD wrote:
> On Dec 15, 8:25 pm, Tim Howard<tim.how...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>> On 12/15/2011 6:08 PM, Strabo wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 12/15/2011 3:17 AM, Tim Howard wrote:
>>>> Perhaps the biased media only showed those who were being divisive
>>>> during the West Coast port shutdown. From what I saw, it was another
>>>> example of people who should have like-minded interests angry at each
>>>> other instead of the real enemies. I saw several quickie interviews with
>>>> long-haul truckers criticizing the Oakland Port shutdown, and actions at
>>>> similar ports in solidarity along the West Coast. All the truckers shown
>>>> in the media seemed opposed to the strike because it was hurting their
>>>> finances. In related coverage, spokespersons for the ILWU said they
>>>> basically did not want members of the Occupation movement at their
>>>> ports. I heard on spokesman say their struggle against the managers "was
>>>> just that, our struggle." They did not not want OWS somehow co-opting
>>>> them. Of course this reminds me of many in the occupation movement who
>>>> do not want to associate with other liberal and left-wing groups because
>>>> they see them as too establishment and worry about being co-opted.
>>
>>>> Activists on the left and laborers should quit this attitude of "my
>>>> struggle" because it sounds like they have a club mentality. They need
>>>> to work together. I don't like most clubs because they keep people out,
>>>> they are selective. Why would the longshoreman want to keep this
>>>> struggle to themselves, like it was precious metal, when others are
>>>> offering to help. Without OWS protestors, could they have closed down
>>>> any of those ports? And the truckers--shame on them for not supporting
>>>> their fellow "blue-collar" workers. One labor organization's struggle
>>>> should be everyone's struggle. They worry about loosing money? Well I
>>>> got news for you, no movement is successful without some sacrifice. OWS
>>>> seems to finally be wising up and trying to work with some other groups,
>>>> but too many think everyone is the enemy. We are all in this fight
>>>> together!
>>
>>> What fight?
>>
>> The fight against injustice perpetrated by the 1%. The fight against
>> corporatism.
>
> You mean the fight against the producers in the world, you miserable
> little parasite.

Wow it was 11 days ago that I posted this. You trolling for my posts
eh? Thanks for the compliment. As for your remark--the "producers of
the world" as you call them, don't "produce" anything without the
LABORERS.

Stan De SD
2011-12-29 11:10:45 EST
On Dec 28, 10:49 pm, Tim Howard <tim.how...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
> On 12/28/2011 10:16 AM, Stan de SD wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 15, 8:25 pm, Tim Howard<tim.how...@suddenlink.net>  wrote:
> >> On 12/15/2011 6:08 PM, Strabo wrote:
>
> >>> On 12/15/2011 3:17 AM, Tim Howard wrote:
> >>>> Perhaps the biased media only showed those who were being divisive
> >>>> during the West Coast port shutdown. From what I saw, it was another
> >>>> example of people who should have like-minded interests angry at each
> >>>> other instead of the real enemies. I saw several quickie interviews with
> >>>> long-haul truckers criticizing the Oakland Port shutdown, and actions at
> >>>> similar ports in solidarity along the West Coast. All the truckers shown
> >>>> in the media seemed opposed to the strike because it was hurting their
> >>>> finances. In related coverage, spokespersons for the ILWU said they
> >>>> basically did not want members of the Occupation movement at their
> >>>> ports. I heard on spokesman say their struggle against the managers "was
> >>>> just that, our struggle." They did not not want OWS somehow co-opting
> >>>> them. Of course this reminds me of many in the occupation movement who
> >>>> do not want to associate with other liberal and left-wing groups because
> >>>> they see them as too establishment and worry about being co-opted.
>
> >>>> Activists on the left and laborers should quit this attitude of "my
> >>>> struggle" because it sounds like they have a club mentality. They need
> >>>> to work together. I don't like most clubs because they keep people out,
> >>>> they are selective. Why would the longshoreman want to keep this
> >>>> struggle to themselves, like it was precious metal, when others are
> >>>> offering to help. Without OWS protestors, could they have closed down
> >>>> any of those ports? And the truckers--shame on them for not supporting
> >>>> their fellow "blue-collar" workers. One labor organization's struggle
> >>>> should be everyone's struggle. They worry about loosing money? Well I
> >>>> got news for you, no movement is successful without some sacrifice. OWS
> >>>> seems to finally be wising up and trying to work with some other groups,
> >>>> but too many think everyone is the enemy. We are all in this fight
> >>>> together!
>
> >>> What fight?
>
> >> The fight against injustice perpetrated by the 1%.  The fight against
> >> corporatism.
>
> > You mean the fight against the producers in the world, you miserable
> > little parasite.
>
> Wow it was 11 days ago that I posted this.  You trolling for my posts
> eh?  Thanks for the compliment.  As for your remark--the "producers of
> the world" as you call them, don't "produce" anything without the
> LABORERS.

And your laborers won't have tools or employment without capital and
brains, something your type has never figured out. But keep punishing
the smart and wealthy, then you will have plenty of time to stand
around pissing and moaning about why there aren't any jobs...

Tim Howard
2011-12-30 00:08:40 EST
On 12/29/2011 8:10 AM, Stan de SD wrote:
> On Dec 28, 10:49 pm, Tim Howard<tim.how...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>> On 12/28/2011 10:16 AM, Stan de SD wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 15, 8:25 pm, Tim Howard<tim.how...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>>>> On 12/15/2011 6:08 PM, Strabo wrote:
>>
>>>>> On 12/15/2011 3:17 AM, Tim Howard wrote:
>>>>>> Perhaps the biased media only showed those who were being divisive
>>>>>> during the West Coast port shutdown. From what I saw, it was another
>>>>>> example of people who should have like-minded interests angry at each
>>>>>> other instead of the real enemies. I saw several quickie interviews with
>>>>>> long-haul truckers criticizing the Oakland Port shutdown, and actions at
>>>>>> similar ports in solidarity along the West Coast. All the truckers shown
>>>>>> in the media seemed opposed to the strike because it was hurting their
>>>>>> finances. In related coverage, spokespersons for the ILWU said they
>>>>>> basically did not want members of the Occupation movement at their
>>>>>> ports. I heard on spokesman say their struggle against the managers "was
>>>>>> just that, our struggle." They did not not want OWS somehow co-opting
>>>>>> them. Of course this reminds me of many in the occupation movement who
>>>>>> do not want to associate with other liberal and left-wing groups because
>>>>>> they see them as too establishment and worry about being co-opted.
>>
>>>>>> Activists on the left and laborers should quit this attitude of "my
>>>>>> struggle" because it sounds like they have a club mentality. They need
>>>>>> to work together. I don't like most clubs because they keep people out,
>>>>>> they are selective. Why would the longshoreman want to keep this
>>>>>> struggle to themselves, like it was precious metal, when others are
>>>>>> offering to help. Without OWS protestors, could they have closed down
>>>>>> any of those ports? And the truckers--shame on them for not supporting
>>>>>> their fellow "blue-collar" workers. One labor organization's struggle
>>>>>> should be everyone's struggle. They worry about loosing money? Well I
>>>>>> got news for you, no movement is successful without some sacrifice. OWS
>>>>>> seems to finally be wising up and trying to work with some other groups,
>>>>>> but too many think everyone is the enemy. We are all in this fight
>>>>>> together!
>>
>>>>> What fight?
>>
>>>> The fight against injustice perpetrated by the 1%. The fight against
>>>> corporatism.
>>
>>> You mean the fight against the producers in the world, you miserable
>>> little parasite.
>>
>> Wow it was 11 days ago that I posted this. You trolling for my posts
>> eh? Thanks for the compliment. As for your remark--the "producers of
>> the world" as you call them, don't "produce" anything without the
>> LABORERS.
>
> And your laborers won't have tools or employment without capital and
> brains, something your type has never figured out.

Not necessarily true. There are employee-owned businesses, co-ops, and
what about those that go into business for themselves? The working
classes and even lower classes could and sometimes do pool their
resources to go into business without the big corporations. But if one
wants to become a big business tycoon, he can't do it on his own.

But keep punishing
> the smart and wealthy, then you will have plenty of time to stand
> around pissing and moaning about why there aren't any jobs...

What you have not figured out is business owners need laborers as much
as you insist laborers need owners. And why do you automatically equate
wealth, with intelligence? There are plenty of rich people who are
otherwise idiotic about other aspects of life--all they know about is
making money, but there is more to life than that. Most of those types
seem to run for President :)

Why do you equate wealth with "producers". That sounds as exaggerated
as the mantra I hear from Republicans that all rich people are "job
creators". You actually implied that too though. There are plenty of
professions where people make money that do not produce wealth, just
claims on existing wealth, and moving wealth around.

Stan De SD
2011-12-30 02:16:33 EST
On Dec 29, 9:08 pm, Tim Howard <tim.how...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
> On 12/29/2011 8:10 AM, Stan de SD wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 28, 10:49 pm, Tim Howard<tim.how...@suddenlink.net>  wrote:
> >> On 12/28/2011 10:16 AM, Stan de SD wrote:
>
> >>> On Dec 15, 8:25 pm, Tim Howard<tim.how...@suddenlink.net>    wrote:
> >>>> On 12/15/2011 6:08 PM, Strabo wrote:
>
> >>>>> On 12/15/2011 3:17 AM, Tim Howard wrote:
> >>>>>> Perhaps the biased media only showed those who were being divisive
> >>>>>> during the West Coast port shutdown. From what I saw, it was another
> >>>>>> example of people who should have like-minded interests angry at each
> >>>>>> other instead of the real enemies. I saw several quickie interviews with
> >>>>>> long-haul truckers criticizing the Oakland Port shutdown, and actions at
> >>>>>> similar ports in solidarity along the West Coast. All the truckers shown
> >>>>>> in the media seemed opposed to the strike because it was hurting their
> >>>>>> finances. In related coverage, spokespersons for the ILWU said they
> >>>>>> basically did not want members of the Occupation movement at their
> >>>>>> ports. I heard on spokesman say their struggle against the managers "was
> >>>>>> just that, our struggle." They did not not want OWS somehow co-opting
> >>>>>> them. Of course this reminds me of many in the occupation movement who
> >>>>>> do not want to associate with other liberal and left-wing groups because
> >>>>>> they see them as too establishment and worry about being co-opted.
>
> >>>>>> Activists on the left and laborers should quit this attitude of "my
> >>>>>> struggle" because it sounds like they have a club mentality. They need
> >>>>>> to work together. I don't like most clubs because they keep people out,
> >>>>>> they are selective. Why would the longshoreman want to keep this
> >>>>>> struggle to themselves, like it was precious metal, when others are
> >>>>>> offering to help. Without OWS protestors, could they have closed down
> >>>>>> any of those ports? And the truckers--shame on them for not supporting
> >>>>>> their fellow "blue-collar" workers. One labor organization's struggle
> >>>>>> should be everyone's struggle. They worry about loosing money? Well I
> >>>>>> got news for you, no movement is successful without some sacrifice. OWS
> >>>>>> seems to finally be wising up and trying to work with some other groups,
> >>>>>> but too many think everyone is the enemy. We are all in this fight
> >>>>>> together!
>
> >>>>> What fight?
>
> >>>> The fight against injustice perpetrated by the 1%.  The fight against
> >>>> corporatism.
>
> >>> You mean the fight against the producers in the world, you miserable
> >>> little parasite.
>
> >> Wow it was 11 days ago that I posted this.  You trolling for my posts
> >> eh?  Thanks for the compliment.  As for your remark--the "producers of
> >> the world" as you call them, don't "produce" anything without the
> >> LABORERS.
>
> > And your laborers won't have tools or employment without capital and
> > brains, something your type has never figured out.
>
> Not necessarily true.  There are employee-owned businesses, co-ops, and
> what about those that go into business for themselves?  The working
> classes and even lower classes could and sometimes do pool their
> resources to go into business without the big corporations.  But if one
> wants to become a big business tycoon, he can't do it on his own.
>
> But keep punishing
>
> > the smart and wealthy, then you will have plenty of time to stand
> > around pissing and moaning about why there aren't any jobs...
>
> What you have not figured out is business owners need laborers as much
> as you insist laborers need owners.

I never said business owners didn't need labor. I did point out that
labor is pretty useless without capital, training, education, and
intellectual activity, something you choose to ignore.

Stan De SD
2011-12-30 02:17:39 EST
On Dec 25, 10:25 pm, Anonymous <Anonymous@Anonymous> wrote:
> Strabo <str...@flashlight.net>  wrote :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 12/15/2011 3:17 AM, Tim Howard wrote:
> >> Perhaps the biased media only showed those who were being divisive
> >> during the West Coast port shutdown. From what I saw, it was another
> >> example of people who should have like-minded interests angry at each
> >> other instead of the real enemies. I saw several quickie interviews with
> >> long-haul truckers criticizing the Oakland Port shutdown, and actions at
> >> similar ports in solidarity along the West Coast. All the truckers shown
> >> in the media seemed opposed to the strike because it was hurting their
> >> finances. In related coverage, spokespersons for the ILWU said they
> >> basically did not want members of the Occupation movement at their
> >> ports. I heard on spokesman say their struggle against the managers "was
> >> just that, our struggle." They did not not want OWS somehow co-opting
> >> them. Of course this reminds me of many in the occupation movement who
> >> do not want to associate with other liberal and left-wing groups because
> >> they see them as too establishment and worry about being co-opted.
>
> >> Activists on the left and laborers should quit this attitude of "my
> >> struggle" because it sounds like they have a club mentality. They need
> >> to work together. I don't like most clubs because they keep people out,
> >> they are selective. Why would the longshoreman want to keep this
> >> struggle to themselves, like it was precious metal, when others are
> >> offering to help. Without OWS protestors, could they have closed down
> >> any of those ports? And the truckers--shame on them for not supporting
> >> their fellow "blue-collar" workers. One labor organization's struggle
> >> should be everyone's struggle. They worry about loosing money? Well I
> >> got news for you, no movement is successful without some sacrifice. OWS
> >> seems to finally be wising up and trying to work with some other groups,
> >> but too many think everyone is the enemy. We are all in this fight
> >> together!
>
> > What fight?
>
> The fight for global marxism, apparently!

Yep. :O|
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