Activism Discussion: Bush: Hiring Decisions May Be Based On Religious Beliefs

Bush: Hiring Decisions May Be Based On Religious Beliefs
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MrPepper11
2005-03-02 15:29:53 EST
Los Angeles Times
March 2, 2005

Bush Says Faith Should Figure in Charity Jobs
By Peter Wallsten and Tom Hamburger, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Tuesday threatened to impose
controversial new policies to let federally funded religious charities
make hiring decisions based on the religious beliefs of potential
employees.

Calling for an expansion of his faith-based initiative, Bush said that
if Congress did not vote for the changes in hiring law this year, he
would consider doing it himself through "executive action."
Administration officials later said it remained unclear what powers the
president had to affect hiring laws through executive order.

The president's remarks came on the eve of a House vote on the hiring
issue. Administration officials say that some religious charities have
been dissuaded from applying for federal grants out of fear that they
would lose their religious identities in having to comply with civil
rights laws that prevent discrimination in hiring.

Opponents say the change would be tantamount to government-sponsored
discrimination, a fear that led Senate Democrats and skeptical
Republicans to block the initiative during Bush's first term.

"One of the key reasons why many faith-based groups are so effective is
a commitment to serve that is grounded in the shared values and
religious identity of their volunteers and employees," Bush said. "In
other words, effectiveness happens because people who share a faith
show up to help a particular organization based on that faith to
succeed. And that's important, now, for people in Washington to
understand."

Bush's faith-based initiative has been credited with boosting the GOP
vote in battleground states last year among African Americans and
Latinos. Under the initiative, the administration has encouraged
federal agencies to funnel more money to religious organizations that
Bush says often perform social services more effectively than the
government.

The House is expected to approve legislation today that, among other
things, would allow religious organizations that receive federal
job-training grants to consider religious beliefs when hiring staff.
The measure's fate is less certain in the Senate.

Bush, speaking Tuesday at a conference of groups involved in the
faith-based initiative, said Congress should pass the measure to clear
up a confusing web of laws regarding whether federally funded religious
groups can restrict hiring to people with matching beliefs.

President Clinton signed laws that the White House was now contending
permitted such hiring practices, including a landmark 1996 welfare
measure that permitted preferential hiring by faith-based organizations
engaged in welfare-to-work programs.

But other laws prohibit discrimination under federally funded
job-training and education programs.

Opponents charged that Bush misinterpreted the laws signed by Clinton,
and that the measures being sought by Bush represented a sharp shift in
U.S. policy, creating an historic rollback of civil rights laws.

Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Church and
State, which opposes the House bill, said the legislation being
considered by the House would roll back existing discrimination
statutes.

"It is astonishing that the president would put his so-called moral
power behind a rollback of the nation's civil rights principles," Lynn
said. He said that he would defend any religious organization's right
to hire whomever it pleased for jobs and programs not funded by the
federal government. But, he said, "this is about tax dollars being used
affirmatively to fund discrimination."

Rep. Robert C. Scott (D-Va.), who has led opposition to the
job-training legislation to be voted on today, said Tuesday that
institutionalizing religious discrimination would lead directly to
legalized racial discrimination. He said blacks would be shut out of
jobs created by a Mormon organization, given that Mormonism was almost
entirely white, while whites would be shut out of jobs created by
programs run by the Nation of Islam or the African Methodist Episcopal
Church.

"That is a profound change in position for the federal government," he
said.

Bush's faith-based initiative has proved politically beneficial to the
GOP, which has used taxpayer-financed grants as an entree into black,
Latino and evangelical churches, many of which are run by charismatic
pastors who backed Bush's reelection.

But the program came under criticism last month from a former official
from the White House faith-based office, David Kuo, who penned a column
for a religion website accusing the administration of failing to live
up to Bush's campaign promises to be a "compassionate conservative."
Kuo criticized the White House as failing to lobby hard enough for
major expenditures and changes to help religious charities, including a
tax break for charitable giving by people who do not itemize their tax
returns.

That deduction didn't pass amid criticism that the measure was too
costly in light of Bush's other tax breaks. In his budget for 2006,
Bush for the first time did not request it.

Still, Bush said that the administration had increased spending on
faith-based groups. Bush said the government spent $2 billion in fiscal
year 2004 on such organizations, an increase over the $1.1 billion the
administration said was spent the year before. He took credit for
increasing the percentage of federal grants that go to faith-based
groups.

But Jim Towey, director of the White House Office on Faith-Based and
Community Initiatives, later told reporters that the numbers were
inconclusive. The 2003 figure represented spending by five agencies,
while the 2004 number totaled that of seven agencies. What is more, he
said, both figures might be too high or too low, because there was no
systematic way to tally spending on faith-based groups.

Rep. Major R. Owens (D-N.Y.), a member of the Education and Workforce
Committee that produced the bill, said he planned to join other members
of the Congressional Black Caucus in voting against the hiring measure.
But he cautioned Democrats not to be seen as consistently negative
toward programs sending real dollars and real aid to local communities.


"If we don't have a strong alternative six months from now, we will be
in serious trouble because these [faith-based] programs have great
appeal," Owens said in an interview on the eve of the vote. "We should
recognize the appeal of programs that reach down to churches and
community organizations to solve local problems and develop our own
parallel program" but with more oversight and targeting than occurs
under the White House initiative.


ZenIsWhen
2005-03-02 16:57:23 EST

"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1109795393.905507.296380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Los Angeles Times
> March 2, 2005
>
> Bush Says Faith Should Figure in Charity Jobs
> By Peter Wallsten and Tom Hamburger, Times Staff Writer
>
> WASHINGTON - President Bush on Tuesday threatened to impose
> controversial new policies to let federally funded religious charities
> make hiring decisions based on the religious beliefs of potential
> employees.
>
> Calling for an expansion of his faith-based initiative, Bush said that
> if Congress did not vote for the changes in hiring law this year, he
> would consider doing it himself through "executive action."
> Administration officials later said it remained unclear what powers the
> president had to affect hiring laws through executive order.

The little Napoleon who, arrogantly, wants what he wants, and the laws,
Constitution, and even Congress, be damned!!!!

>
> The president's remarks came on the eve of a House vote on the hiring
> issue. Administration officials say that some religious charities have
> been dissuaded from applying for federal grants out of fear that they
> would lose their religious identities in having to comply with civil
> rights laws that prevent discrimination in hiring.
>
> Opponents say the change would be tantamount to government-sponsored
> discrimination, a fear that led Senate Democrats and skeptical
> Republicans to block the initiative during Bush's first term.
>
> "One of the key reasons why many faith-based groups are so effective is
> a commitment to serve that is grounded in the shared values and
> religious identity of their volunteers and employees," Bush said. "In
> other words, effectiveness happens because people who share a faith
> show up to help a particular organization based on that faith to
> succeed. And that's important, now, for people in Washington to
> understand."

Even IF that were so, that is NO reason the government should be funding
them!
They are as only as effective as their determination - and ANYONE, not just
religious believers, can and do share that same commitment


> Bush's faith-based initiative has been credited with boosting the GOP
> vote in battleground states last year among African Americans and
> Latinos. Under the initiative, the administration has encouraged
> federal agencies to funnel more money to religious organizations that
> Bush says often perform social services more effectively than the
> government.
>
> The House is expected to approve legislation today that, among other
> things, would allow religious organizations that receive federal
> job-training grants to consider religious beliefs when hiring staff.
> The measure's fate is less certain in the Senate.
>
> Bush, speaking Tuesday at a conference of groups involved in the
> faith-based initiative, said Congress should pass the measure to clear
> up a confusing web of laws regarding whether federally funded religious
> groups can restrict hiring to people with matching beliefs.
>
> President Clinton signed laws that the White House was now contending
> permitted such hiring practices, including a landmark 1996 welfare
> measure that permitted preferential hiring by faith-based organizations
> engaged in welfare-to-work programs.
>
> But other laws prohibit discrimination under federally funded
> job-training and education programs.
>
> Opponents charged that Bush misinterpreted the laws signed by Clinton,
> and that the measures being sought by Bush represented a sharp shift in
> U.S. policy, creating an historic rollback of civil rights laws.
>
> Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Church and
> State, which opposes the House bill, said the legislation being
> considered by the House would roll back existing discrimination
> statutes.
>
> "It is astonishing that the president would put his so-called moral
> power behind a rollback of the nation's civil rights principles," Lynn
> said. He said that he would defend any religious organization's right
> to hire whomever it pleased for jobs and programs not funded by the
> federal government. But, he said, "this is about tax dollars being used
> affirmatively to fund discrimination."
>
> Rep. Robert C. Scott (D-Va.), who has led opposition to the
> job-training legislation to be voted on today, said Tuesday that
> institutionalizing religious discrimination would lead directly to
> legalized racial discrimination. He said blacks would be shut out of
> jobs created by a Mormon organization, given that Mormonism was almost
> entirely white, while whites would be shut out of jobs created by
> programs run by the Nation of Islam or the African Methodist Episcopal
> Church.
>
> "That is a profound change in position for the federal government," he
> said.
>
> Bush's faith-based initiative has proved politically beneficial to the
> GOP, which has used taxpayer-financed grants as an entree into black,
> Latino and evangelical churches, many of which are run by charismatic
> pastors who backed Bush's reelection.
>
> But the program came under criticism last month from a former official
> from the White House faith-based office, David Kuo, who penned a column
> for a religion website accusing the administration of failing to live
> up to Bush's campaign promises to be a "compassionate conservative."
> Kuo criticized the White House as failing to lobby hard enough for
> major expenditures and changes to help religious charities, including a
> tax break for charitable giving by people who do not itemize their tax
> returns.
>
> That deduction didn't pass amid criticism that the measure was too
> costly in light of Bush's other tax breaks. In his budget for 2006,
> Bush for the first time did not request it.
>
> Still, Bush said that the administration had increased spending on
> faith-based groups. Bush said the government spent $2 billion in fiscal
> year 2004 on such organizations, an increase over the $1.1 billion the
> administration said was spent the year before. He took credit for
> increasing the percentage of federal grants that go to faith-based
> groups.
>
> But Jim Towey, director of the White House Office on Faith-Based and
> Community Initiatives, later told reporters that the numbers were
> inconclusive. The 2003 figure represented spending by five agencies,
> while the 2004 number totaled that of seven agencies. What is more, he
> said, both figures might be too high or too low, because there was no
> systematic way to tally spending on faith-based groups.
>
> Rep. Major R. Owens (D-N.Y.), a member of the Education and Workforce
> Committee that produced the bill, said he planned to join other members
> of the Congressional Black Caucus in voting against the hiring measure.
> But he cautioned Democrats not to be seen as consistently negative
> toward programs sending real dollars and real aid to local communities.
>
>
> "If we don't have a strong alternative six months from now, we will be
> in serious trouble because these [faith-based] programs have great
> appeal," Owens said in an interview on the eve of the vote. "We should
> recognize the appeal of programs that reach down to churches and
> community organizations to solve local problems and develop our own
> parallel program" but with more oversight and targeting than occurs
> under the White House initiative.
>



C*@yahoo.com
2005-03-02 18:28:04 EST

ZenIsWhen wrote:
> "MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
> news:1109795393.905507.296380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Los Angeles Times
> > March 2, 2005
> >
> > Bush Says Faith Should Figure in Charity Jobs
> > By Peter Wallsten and Tom Hamburger, Times Staff Writer
> >
> > WASHINGTON - President Bush on Tuesday threatened to impose
> > controversial new policies to let federally funded religious
charities
> > make hiring decisions based on the religious beliefs of potential
> > employees.
> >
> > Calling for an expansion of his faith-based initiative, Bush said
that
> > if Congress did not vote for the changes in hiring law this year,
he
> > would consider doing it himself through "executive action."
> > Administration officials later said it remained unclear what powers
the
> > president had to affect hiring laws through executive order.
>
> The little Napoleon who, arrogantly, wants what he wants, and the
laws,
> Constitution, and even Congress, be damned!!!!

Napoleon was a military genius with a great respect for the principles
of the Enlightenment. Napoleon instituted the metric system. Napoleon
helped to end feudalism. Napoleon gave freedom of religion,
emancipating the Jews.

Please do not compare Bush to Napoleon.


ZenIsWhen
2005-03-02 20:17:44 EST

<chris_h_fleming@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109806084.402182.113500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> ZenIsWhen wrote:
> > "MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
> > news:1109795393.905507.296380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > > Los Angeles Times
> > > March 2, 2005
> > >
> > > Bush Says Faith Should Figure in Charity Jobs
> > > By Peter Wallsten and Tom Hamburger, Times Staff Writer
> > >
> > > WASHINGTON - President Bush on Tuesday threatened to impose
> > > controversial new policies to let federally funded religious
> charities
> > > make hiring decisions based on the religious beliefs of potential
> > > employees.
> > >
> > > Calling for an expansion of his faith-based initiative, Bush said
> that
> > > if Congress did not vote for the changes in hiring law this year,
> he
> > > would consider doing it himself through "executive action."
> > > Administration officials later said it remained unclear what powers
> the
> > > president had to affect hiring laws through executive order.
> >
> > The little Napoleon who, arrogantly, wants what he wants, and the
> laws,
> > Constitution, and even Congress, be damned!!!!
>
> Napoleon was a military genius with a great respect for the principles
> of the Enlightenment. Napoleon instituted the metric system. Napoleon
> helped to end feudalism. Napoleon gave freedom of religion,
> emancipating the Jews.
>
> Please do not compare Bush to Napoleon.

........ just got tired of constantly showing how Bush was like Hitler.

Besides, Hitler and Mousollini "made the trains run on time" didn't excuse
the fact that they were power hungry tyrants.




Williams
2005-03-02 20:29:55 EST

ZenIsWhen wrote:
> <chris_h_fleming@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1109806084.402182.113500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > ZenIsWhen wrote:
> > > "MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1109795393.905507.296380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > > > Los Angeles Times
> > > > March 2, 2005
> > > >
> > > > Bush Says Faith Should Figure in Charity Jobs
> > > > By Peter Wallsten and Tom Hamburger, Times Staff Writer
> > > >
> > > > WASHINGTON - President Bush on Tuesday threatened to impose
> > > > controversial new policies to let federally funded religious
> > charities
> > > > make hiring decisions based on the religious beliefs of
potential
> > > > employees.
> > > >
> > > > Calling for an expansion of his faith-based initiative, Bush
said
> > that
> > > > if Congress did not vote for the changes in hiring law this
year,
> > he
> > > > would consider doing it himself through "executive action."
> > > > Administration officials later said it remained unclear what
powers
> > the
> > > > president had to affect hiring laws through executive order.
> > >
> > > The little Napoleon who, arrogantly, wants what he wants, and the
> > laws,
> > > Constitution, and even Congress, be damned!!!!
> >
> > Napoleon was a military genius with a great respect for the
principles
> > of the Enlightenment. Napoleon instituted the metric system.
Napoleon
> > helped to end feudalism. Napoleon gave freedom of religion,
> > emancipating the Jews.
> >
> > Please do not compare Bush to Napoleon.
>
> ........ just got tired of constantly showing how Bush was like
Hitler.
>
> Besides, Hitler and Mousollini "made the trains run on time" didn't
excuse
> the fact that they were power hungry tyrants.

hitler volunteered and served on the western front as a corporal... he
was wounded once, almost was gassed to death on another occasion....
and decorated for bravery _four_ times.
napoleon was one of the greatest military commanders in history
(waterloo excepted)... also an outstanding civil administrator with a
keen interest in learning (except for the emperor bit)... remember
beethoven had dedicated the 3rd symphony to him.
g w bush is a pathetic coward and a petty vandal.


Williams
2005-03-02 20:36:37 EST
it's time to everyone to start your own private church... get
yourselves and your own families some good well-paying faith-based
jobs... 'true believers' only... 'nonbelievers' need not apply...


Al Klein
2005-03-02 21:09:16 EST
On 2 Mar 2005 12:29:53 -0800, "MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> said in
alt.atheism:

>"If we don't have a strong alternative six months from now, we will be
>in serious trouble because these [faith-based] programs have great
>appeal," Owens said in an interview on the eve of the vote.

As a black man he should be perfectly aware that slavery had "great
appeal" too. If "great appeal" is a good reason to pass a law, I
wonder how much it would cost me to buy him.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent design."
-Josef Balluch
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)

B*@apexmail.com
2005-03-03 00:48:55 EST
MrPepper11 wrote:
> Los Angeles Times
> March 2, 2005
>
> Bush Says Faith Should Figure in Charity Jobs
> By Peter Wallsten and Tom Hamburger, Times Staff Writer
>
> WASHINGTON - President Bush on Tuesday threatened to impose
> controversial new policies to let federally funded religious
charities
> make hiring decisions based on the religious beliefs of potential
> employees.

Let me guess what's next: this edict is then applied to any
business or corporation establishing itself as "religious",
ie. anybody that wants to. It would open the door to firing
or not hiring people for not disclosing their own religion
or for not being part of the employer's religion.

And after that? Companies who don't establish a religion
(or they do, and their religions are not xian) see their
business licenses revoked without explanation?

That's pretty much what the English and Europeans did to the
Quakers and the Jews. Only this time, there's no "New World"
to leave for and start a new country.


Bob Dog


Gregory Gadow
2005-03-03 09:29:46 EST
MrPepper11 wrote:

> Los Angeles Times
> March 2, 2005
>
> Bush Says Faith Should Figure in Charity Jobs
> By Peter Wallsten and Tom Hamburger, Times Staff Writer
>
> WASHINGTON - President Bush on Tuesday threatened to impose
> controversial new policies to let federally funded religious charities
> make hiring decisions based on the religious beliefs of potential
> employees.
>
> Calling for an expansion of his faith-based initiative, Bush said that
> if Congress did not vote for the changes in hiring law this year, he
> would consider doing it himself through "executive action."
> Administration officials later said it remained unclear what powers the
> president had to affect hiring laws through executive order.

So here we have an "activist president" who insists on making his own law,
bypassing the Constitutionally mandated process of legislation.

Where is the conservative outrage?
--
Gregory Gadow
t*r@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear

"[T]hose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves;
and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
-- Pres. George W. Bush, Hypocrite, his inauguration speech, 2005



Dave Simpson
2005-03-03 12:00:39 EST

Liberals broke the dikes of Constitutional and other legal constraints.
It is they who are to blame even if the flood runs rightward instead
of leftward on rare occasions.

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