Activism Discussion: RAWA's View Of Afghanistan Protests

RAWA's View Of Afghanistan Protests
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Dan Clore
2005-05-28 12:00:04 EST
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

ZNet | Afghanistan
RAWA's View of Afghanistan Protests
by RAWA
Afghan Women's Mission
May 28, 2005

Afghan Women's Mission recently asked RAWA (the
Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan) what
they thought of the anti-US protests in Afghanistan, the
desecration of the Koran, and the prisoner abuses. The
answer of RAWA member Selay is printed below:

/(edited for English, removed salutations)/

The recent wave of demonstrations are not something new.
Actually in the past one year many Afghan cities witnessed
such huge demonstrations mainly organized by people who
oppose the policies of Mr. Karzai and want to show their
opposition to his pro-warlord actions.

People are fed up with many critical social issues and come
out on the streets to protest. When people see that Karzai
shakes hands with the most dirty enemies of the Afghan
people, who first of all should appear in a court of
justice; when people see that millions of dollars given in
the name of the reconstruction of Afghanistan goes into the
pockets of warlords and no one asks about their brutality
(on the contrary Mr. Karzai frequently installs them in key
posts); they have no other option but to protest and in many
cases it takes a violent form.

The situation in Afghanistan is far more disastrous then
what you may imagine. The Karzai administration has done
nothing positive but just works hard to gather all the top
fundamentalist criminals around himself. Even these days he
is trying to portray some key Taliban leaders as
"moderates," and tries to share power with them. A few days
ago through Sibghatullah Mojadeddi, the government announced
amnesty for Gulbuddin and Mullah Omar if they surrender.

All these policies are contrary to the wishes of our people
who want justice and the prosecution of top fundamentalist
leaders. People are furious but are powerless. Mass protest
is the only type of weapon people have to put pressure on
the government.

Therefore in such a situation people display their anger by
such demonstrations. They find any excuse to come to the
streets. In the latest protests, the gross majority of
people don’t care about the report of Newsweek–it is just an
excuse for them to protest. And of course the
fundamentalists, especially the party of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar
and Al Qaeda, try to make use of these protests and guide it
according to their own wishes.

It would be very wrong, however, to stamp these protests as
being pro-Al Qaeda. The US and Afghan governments certainly
try to raise propaganda that Al Qaeda is behind it. These
protests are the continuation of a larger wave which started
one year ago all over Afghanistan, and its main reason is
the treacherous policy of Mr Karzai and the
pro-fundamentalist stand of the US government. People are
very much disappointed with what is going on in Afghanistan
over the past few years. They were given many promises but
none of them were put into practice.

Regarding the desecration of the Koran: of course we are of
the opinion that such acts are disgusting because it hurts
millions of Muslims around the world. In fact we are against
any kind of disrespect and profanity to the sanctity of any
religion. However, the desecration of the Koran alone can't
move people to protest on such a large scale. Afghans are
not more Muslim than the people in other nations that they
would risk their lives for it while the Muslims in most
other countries did not commit any actions against the
Newsweek story.

Abuse and torture of prisoners is simply an inhuman act. We
are in favor of internationally known principles regarding
treatment of prisoners. Abuse and torture of prisoners in US
custody in itself shows the futility of the US government's
hue and cry about human rights. It shows that the US
government's claims about human rights are there just so it
can bomb countries to gain its own interests. Many of the
victims in the US custody in Bagram are ordinary people who
have been arrested under the name of Al Qaeda and Taliban.
The US government shakes hands with the real criminals like
Mullah Motawakal etc., but tortures our helpless people.
Such tortures are reported by the media to be in Guantanamo
and Bagram but in fact it is very common in all US bases
across Afghanistan. Whenever they arrest anyone, they remove
their clothes and torture them. They know that for Afghans
to be naked is the worst torture and a way to weaken their
morale.

If the situation in Afghanistan continues like this, we will
see larger and more violent protests by the people. Of
course the Taliban and Al Qaeda will try to make use of this
situation more then others. Unfortunately, democratic-minded
forces of Afghanistan are very weak and not being supported
by the international community and are not in a position to
lead these protest in the best possible way.

For many days there has been news that the US government
wants to legitimize its permanent presence in Afghanistan
and to make its base here for the next 60 years. This news
intensified the protests even more. Karzai gathered Loya
Jirga members and fundamentalist leaders like Sayyaf,
Rabbani etc. to discuss the issue. In the meeting Sayyaf and
Rabbani in their speeches welcomed the idea, but there were
some opposition from other members. Though all members were
given 2 minutes time to speak they did not allow Malalai
Joya to speak!

But we think these protests are a positive sign and show
that our people have the consciousness not to accept any
government that is in place to fulfill the interests of the
US government. It shows Afghans will not accept the
occupation of the US forces for long. Fortunately the gross
majority of the protesters were students and young people,
which shows our young generation has learnt much from the
past history of Afghanistan.

Visit RAWA's website at
http://www.rawa.org
Find out how you can work in solidarity with RAWA at
http://www.afghanwomensmission.org

--
Dan Clore

Now available: _The Unspeakable and Others_
http://www.wildsidepress.com/index2.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in
itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or
tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never
entered into any war, or act of hostility against any
Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no
pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce
an interruption of the harmony existing between the two
countries.
-- The Treaty of Tripoli, entered into by the USA under
George Washington














James A. Donald
2005-05-28 23:15:13 EST
--
On Sat, 28 May 2005 09:00:04 -0700, Dan Clore
<*e@columbia-center.org> wrote:

> News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
>
> ZNet | Afghanistan RAWA's View of Afghanistan Protests
> by RAWA Afghan Women's Mission May 28, 2005

RAWA did not exist until the Taliban were in danger,
whereupon their first campaign was to protect the
Taliban.


--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
SYWioOO3Vev/mO60+U2+BlG58trAvup3nSKc30hZ
4cIPbLaPmuBuboFWgvTTs9TiWSg3DO52anYVu9dss


--
http://www.jim.com

Bruce Scott TOK
2005-06-01 15:33:28 EST
James Donald wrote:

>RAWA did not exist until the Taliban were in danger,
>whereupon their first campaign was to protect the
>Taliban.

That's quite ridiculous and shows you don't know anything about the
things you reply to.

I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or so when the Taliban
were secure in power, and nobody except oil companies really cared much
about them.

They've been around since the 1970s IIRC...

--
cu,
Bruce

drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/


Dan Clore
2005-06-01 18:42:09 EST
Bruce Scott TOK wrote:
> James Donald wrote:

>>RAWA did not exist until the Taliban were in danger,
>>whereupon their first campaign was to protect the
>>Taliban.
>
> That's quite ridiculous and shows you don't know anything about the
> things you reply to.
>
> I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or so when the Taliban
> were secure in power, and nobody except oil companies really cared much
> about them.
>
> They've been around since the 1970s IIRC...

James Donald is a pathological liar, who constantly posts
the most ridiculous claims he can invent. RAWA was
originally as an opposition group in 1977, shortly before
the Soviet occupation. The Taliban didn't even exist back
then. Founder Meena was assassinated in 1987. RAWA has since
become the most principled opponent of the Taliban, risking
their lives to document its crimes. They secretly videotaped
brutal executions and smuggled the tapes to the West.

http://www.rawa.org/

--
Dan Clore

My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"


James A. Donald
2005-06-01 23:29:37 EST
--
On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:42:09 -0700, Dan Clore
> James Donald is a pathological liar, who constantly
> posts the most ridiculous claims he can invent. RAWA
> was originally as an opposition group in 1977,

That is what their website claims:

Let us see what the wayback machine says about RAWA
www.archive.org. We find that the wayback machine says
something rather different.

Interestingly for an organization that supposedly dates
back to 1977, their web site appears in 1998

And guess what their very first article on that website
is:

: : The US Bares its Fangs to its Flunkeys
: :
: : Last night the world was astounded by the news
: : of US missile strikes against targets in
: : Afghanistan and the Sudan.

This supposedly feminist, supposedly anti fundamentalist
organization appeared in 1998, and from its first
appearance, from the beginning its primary business has
been to steadfastly defend arab male fundamentalists
from physical, political, and cultural attack by the
west.

When Clinton opened fire on Osama Bin Laden for the very
first time, after some horrendous terrorists attacks,
then RAWA appeared from out of thin air, and told us:
: : RAWA roundly condemns the US air strikes
: : against Afghanistan because the impoverished
: : masses of Afghanistan --already trapped in
: : the dog-fighting between the US's Taliban and
: : Jihadi flunkeys-- are the ones who are most
: : hurt in the attacks, and also because the US,
: : like the arrogant superpower she is, has
: : violated the sovereignty of the Afghan people
: : and the territorial integrity of the Afghan
: : homeland.

The Taliban flogging women did not cause RAWA to post an
article or start a website.

The Taliban burying women alive did not cause RAWA to
post an article or start a website.

The Taliban organizing mass rapes and abductions did not
cause RAWA to post an article or start a website.

What caused RAWA to start a website and post an article
was the US violating the Taliban's territorial
integrity.

Some feminists!

--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
GBohJv+awf9Uvg5CiIUkfbIJSTfoJTBhCNp/+CfI
4oVa3za31R86vQwYWi+uG6JiyoJ8j8C3xvZ/B9Dil


--
http://www.jim.com

James A. Donald
2005-06-02 00:04:55 EST
--
James Donald wrote:
> > RAWA did not exist until the Taliban were in danger,
> > whereupon their first campaign was to protect the
> > Taliban.

Bruce Scott TOK
> That's quite ridiculous and shows you don't know
> anything about the things you reply to.
>
> I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or
> so when the Taliban were secure in power, and nobody
> except oil companies really cared much about them.
>
> They've been around since the 1970s IIRC...

Liar

--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
a5O2VKZE73lHfTJRCfdaiKmXHJh8mvDxpCsHVTP9
4agX2VF7uncY+zzLRLLXVHYKL7f2t0oTz0Vj5tRz4


--
http://www.jim.com

M J Carley
2005-06-02 03:57:46 EST
In the referenced article, James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> writes:
> --
>On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:42:09 -0700, Dan Clore
>> James Donald is a pathological liar, who constantly
>> posts the most ridiculous claims he can invent. RAWA
>> was originally as an opposition group in 1977,
>
>That is what their website claims:
>
>Let us see what the wayback machine says about RAWA
>www.archive.org. We find that the wayback machine says
>something rather different.
>
>Interestingly for an organization that supposedly dates
>back to 1977, their web site appears in 1998

I did a check for some well-known sites: www.harvard.edu first appears
in 1997, www.cam.ac.uk likewise, thus proving that Harvard and
Cambridge Universities are only recently established.

>This supposedly feminist, supposedly anti fundamentalist organization
>appeared in 1998, and from its first appearance, from the beginning
>its primary business has been to steadfastly defend arab male
>fundamentalists from physical, political, and cultural attack by the
>west.

You honestly believe that the first thing a political movement in
Afghanistan would do is set up a website?

>The Taliban flogging women did not cause RAWA to post an
>article or start a website.
>
>The Taliban burying women alive did not cause RAWA to
>post an article or start a website.
>
>The Taliban organizing mass rapes and abductions did not
>cause RAWA to post an article or start a website.
>
>What caused RAWA to start a website and post an article
>was the US violating the Taliban's territorial
>integrity.
>
>Some feminists!

Indeed. A statement from their website, issued in December 1998.

http://www.rawa.org/dec10-98.htm

Resolution of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of
Afghanistan (RAWA) in regard to December 10, International Human
Rights Day

Overthrow of Jihadi and Taliban Criminals is the Only Guarantee of
Human Rights in Afghanistan

At a time when the peoples of the world are celebrating 50th
Anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the people
of Afghanistan and in particular the agonised women of Afghanistan
are being brutalised in the most tragically inhuman
conditions. Afghan women are deprived of the most basic human
rights. The Taliban with their ultra-reactionary mentality have so
savagely assaulted the rights and the most private aspects of the
life of our people that no parallel or equivalent can be found in
any Muslim or non-Muslim country in the world. These creatures from
the dark ages have brought to perfection the misogyny, the
compulsion for the suppression of liberty, the penchant for carnage
and looting, and the psychopathic urge to insult and humiliate the
people that was the hallmarks of their Jihadi brethren-in-creed. The
total disfranchisement of women of the very elementary human rights
is their masterpiece. Afghanistan in the flames of Taliban ignorance
and infamy has become a roaring inferno. Marking December 10 as
International Human Rights Day by the world community and human
rights organisations would be meaningless without unequivocal
condemnation of the Taliban who deride the civilised concept of
Human Rights. ...

--
Differenza fra il rivoluzionaro e il cialtrone. Il rivoluzionario
rompe l'orologio e invece di presentarsi alle nove si presenta alle
nove meno cinque. Il cialtrone rompe l'orologio e si alza alle undici.
Home page: http://people.bath.ac.uk/ensmjc/

Dan Clore
2005-06-02 06:36:35 EST
M J Carley wrote:
> In the referenced article, James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> writes:
>>On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:42:09 -0700, Dan Clore

>>>James Donald is a pathological liar, who constantly
>>>posts the most ridiculous claims he can invent. RAWA
>>>was originally as an opposition group in 1977,
>>
>>That is what their website claims:
>>
>>Let us see what the wayback machine says about RAWA
>>www.archive.org. We find that the wayback machine says
>>something rather different.
>>
>>Interestingly for an organization that supposedly dates
>>back to 1977, their web site appears in 1998
>
> I did a check for some well-known sites: www.harvard.edu first appears
> in 1997, www.cam.ac.uk likewise, thus proving that Harvard and
> Cambridge Universities are only recently established.
>
>>This supposedly feminist, supposedly anti fundamentalist organization
>>appeared in 1998, and from its first appearance, from the beginning
>>its primary business has been to steadfastly defend arab male
>>fundamentalists from physical, political, and cultural attack by the
>>west.
>
> You honestly believe that the first thing a political movement in
> Afghanistan would do is set up a website?
>
>>The Taliban flogging women did not cause RAWA to post an
>>article or start a website.
>>
>>The Taliban burying women alive did not cause RAWA to
>>post an article or start a website.
>>
>>The Taliban organizing mass rapes and abductions did not
>>cause RAWA to post an article or start a website.
>>
>>What caused RAWA to start a website and post an article
>>was the US violating the Taliban's territorial
>>integrity.
>>
>>Some feminists!
>
> Indeed. A statement from their website, issued in December 1998.
>
> http://www.rawa.org/dec10-98.htm
>
> Resolution of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of
> Afghanistan (RAWA) in regard to December 10, International Human
> Rights Day
>
> Overthrow of Jihadi and Taliban Criminals is the Only Guarantee of
> Human Rights in Afghanistan
>
> At a time when the peoples of the world are celebrating 50th
> Anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the people
> of Afghanistan and in particular the agonised women of Afghanistan
> are being brutalised in the most tragically inhuman
> conditions. Afghan women are deprived of the most basic human
> rights. The Taliban with their ultra-reactionary mentality have so
> savagely assaulted the rights and the most private aspects of the
> life of our people that no parallel or equivalent can be found in
> any Muslim or non-Muslim country in the world. These creatures from
> the dark ages have brought to perfection the misogyny, the
> compulsion for the suppression of liberty, the penchant for carnage
> and looting, and the psychopathic urge to insult and humiliate the
> people that was the hallmarks of their Jihadi brethren-in-creed. The
> total disfranchisement of women of the very elementary human rights
> is their masterpiece. Afghanistan in the flames of Taliban ignorance
> and infamy has become a roaring inferno. Marking December 10 as
> International Human Rights Day by the world community and human
> rights organisations would be meaningless without unequivocal
> condemnation of the Taliban who deride the civilised concept of
> Human Rights. ...

In addition to all this, should I mention again that they
secretly videotaped Taliban atrocities, which were shown on
the Oprah Winfrey Show in December, 2000?

That doesn't exactly sound like a group supporting the
Taliban, does it?

--
Dan Clore

My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"


Bruce Scott
2005-06-02 09:12:52 EST
James Donald wrote:

>James Donald wrote:
>> > RAWA did not exist until the Taliban were in danger,
>> > whereupon their first campaign was to protect the
>> > Taliban.
>
>Bruce Scott TOK
>> That's quite ridiculous and shows you don't know
>> anything about the things you reply to.
>>
>> I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or
>> so when the Taliban were secure in power, and nobody
>> except oil companies really cared much about them.
>>
>> They've been around since the 1970s IIRC...
>
>Liar

Childish. You've been comprehensively shown up and this is your best
reply.

I said:

>> I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or so

And MJ Carley recalls the first post I saw there:

|> Indeed. A statement from their website, issued in December 1998.
|>
|> http://www.rawa.org/dec10-98.htm
|>
|> Resolution of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of
|> Afghanistan (RAWA) in regard to December 10, International Human
|> Rights Day
|>
|> Overthrow of Jihadi and Taliban Criminals is the Only Guarantee of
|> Human Rights in Afghanistan

How about answering for your claim that they are pro-Taliban...

Of course right wingers have been trained not to answer for their
blunders.

``Always attack, never defend''
-- L Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology

--
cu,
Bruce

drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/


Josh Dougherty
2005-06-02 13:56:49 EST
"Bruce Scott" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:200506021312.j52DCqhS013550@ipp.mpg.de...
> James Donald wrote:
>
> >James Donald wrote:
> >> > RAWA did not exist until the Taliban were in danger,
> >> > whereupon their first campaign was to protect the
> >> > Taliban.
> >
> >Bruce Scott TOK
> >> That's quite ridiculous and shows you don't know
> >> anything about the things you reply to.
> >>
> >> I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or
> >> so when the Taliban were secure in power, and nobody
> >> except oil companies really cared much about them.
> >>
> >> They've been around since the 1970s IIRC...
> >
> >Liar
>
> Childish. You've been comprehensively shown up and this is your best
> reply.
>
> I said:
>
> >> I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or so
>
> And MJ Carley recalls the first post I saw there:
>
> |> Indeed. A statement from their website, issued in December 1998.
> |>
> |> http://www.rawa.org/dec10-98.htm
> |>
> |> Resolution of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of
> |> Afghanistan (RAWA) in regard to December 10, International Human
> |> Rights Day
> |>
> |> Overthrow of Jihadi and Taliban Criminals is the Only Guarantee of
> |> Human Rights in Afghanistan
>
> How about answering for your claim that they are pro-Taliban...
>

well, see, opposing US bombing and occupation of Afghanistan makes you
"pro-Taliban". It doesn't much matter what your position on the Taliban
actually is. Similarly, protesting the US bombing and occupation of Iraq
makes you "pro-Saddam".

Mere facts can't make a dent in these kind of axioms.


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