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ZNet | Afghanistan RAWA's View of Afghanistan Protests by RAWA Afghan Women's Mission May 28, 2005
Afghan Women's Mission recently asked RAWA (the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan) what they thought of the anti-US protests in Afghanistan, the desecration of the Koran, and the prisoner abuses. The answer of RAWA member Selay is printed below:
/(edited for English, removed salutations)/
The recent wave of demonstrations are not something new. Actually in the past one year many Afghan cities witnessed such huge demonstrations mainly organized by people who oppose the policies of Mr. Karzai and want to show their opposition to his pro-warlord actions.
People are fed up with many critical social issues and come out on the streets to protest. When people see that Karzai shakes hands with the most dirty enemies of the Afghan people, who first of all should appear in a court of justice; when people see that millions of dollars given in the name of the reconstruction of Afghanistan goes into the pockets of warlords and no one asks about their brutality (on the contrary Mr. Karzai frequently installs them in key posts); they have no other option but to protest and in many cases it takes a violent form.
The situation in Afghanistan is far more disastrous then what you may imagine. The Karzai administration has done nothing positive but just works hard to gather all the top fundamentalist criminals around himself. Even these days he is trying to portray some key Taliban leaders as "moderates," and tries to share power with them. A few days ago through Sibghatullah Mojadeddi, the government announced amnesty for Gulbuddin and Mullah Omar if they surrender.
All these policies are contrary to the wishes of our people who want justice and the prosecution of top fundamentalist leaders. People are furious but are powerless. Mass protest is the only type of weapon people have to put pressure on the government.
Therefore in such a situation people display their anger by such demonstrations. They find any excuse to come to the streets. In the latest protests, the gross majority of people don’t care about the report of Newsweek–it is just an excuse for them to protest. And of course the fundamentalists, especially the party of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and Al Qaeda, try to make use of these protests and guide it according to their own wishes.
It would be very wrong, however, to stamp these protests as being pro-Al Qaeda. The US and Afghan governments certainly try to raise propaganda that Al Qaeda is behind it. These protests are the continuation of a larger wave which started one year ago all over Afghanistan, and its main reason is the treacherous policy of Mr Karzai and the pro-fundamentalist stand of the US government. People are very much disappointed with what is going on in Afghanistan over the past few years. They were given many promises but none of them were put into practice.
Regarding the desecration of the Koran: of course we are of the opinion that such acts are disgusting because it hurts millions of Muslims around the world. In fact we are against any kind of disrespect and profanity to the sanctity of any religion. However, the desecration of the Koran alone can't move people to protest on such a large scale. Afghans are not more Muslim than the people in other nations that they would risk their lives for it while the Muslims in most other countries did not commit any actions against the Newsweek story.
Abuse and torture of prisoners is simply an inhuman act. We are in favor of internationally known principles regarding treatment of prisoners. Abuse and torture of prisoners in US custody in itself shows the futility of the US government's hue and cry about human rights. It shows that the US government's claims about human rights are there just so it can bomb countries to gain its own interests. Many of the victims in the US custody in Bagram are ordinary people who have been arrested under the name of Al Qaeda and Taliban. The US government shakes hands with the real criminals like Mullah Motawakal etc., but tortures our helpless people. Such tortures are reported by the media to be in Guantanamo and Bagram but in fact it is very common in all US bases across Afghanistan. Whenever they arrest anyone, they remove their clothes and torture them. They know that for Afghans to be naked is the worst torture and a way to weaken their morale.
If the situation in Afghanistan continues like this, we will see larger and more violent protests by the people. Of course the Taliban and Al Qaeda will try to make use of this situation more then others. Unfortunately, democratic-minded forces of Afghanistan are very weak and not being supported by the international community and are not in a position to lead these protest in the best possible way.
For many days there has been news that the US government wants to legitimize its permanent presence in Afghanistan and to make its base here for the next 60 years. This news intensified the protests even more. Karzai gathered Loya Jirga members and fundamentalist leaders like Sayyaf, Rabbani etc. to discuss the issue. In the meeting Sayyaf and Rabbani in their speeches welcomed the idea, but there were some opposition from other members. Though all members were given 2 minutes time to speak they did not allow Malalai Joya to speak!
But we think these protests are a positive sign and show that our people have the consciousness not to accept any government that is in place to fulfill the interests of the US government. It shows Afghans will not accept the occupation of the US forces for long. Fortunately the gross majority of the protesters were students and young people, which shows our young generation has learnt much from the past history of Afghanistan.
Visit RAWA's website at http://www.rawa.org Find out how you can work in solidarity with RAWA at http://www.afghanwomensmission.org
-- Dan Clore
Now available: _The Unspeakable and Others_ http://www.wildsidepress.com/index2.htm http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/ News & Views for Anarchists & Activists: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. -- The Treaty of Tripoli, entered into by the USA under George Washington
James A. Donald
2005-05-28 23:15:13 EST
-- On Sat, 28 May 2005 09:00:04 -0700, Dan Clore <*e@columbia-center.org> wrote:
> News & Views for Anarchists & Activists: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo > > ZNet | Afghanistan RAWA's View of Afghanistan Protests > by RAWA Afghan Women's Mission May 28, 2005
RAWA did not exist until the Taliban were in danger, whereupon their first campaign was to protect the Taliban.
--digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG SYWioOO3Vev/mO60+U2+BlG58trAvup3nSKc30hZ 4cIPbLaPmuBuboFWgvTTs9TiWSg3DO52anYVu9dss
-- http://www.jim.com
Bruce Scott TOK
2005-06-01 15:33:28 EST
James Donald wrote:
>RAWA did not exist until the Taliban were in danger, >whereupon their first campaign was to protect the >Taliban.
That's quite ridiculous and shows you don't know anything about the things you reply to.
I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or so when the Taliban were secure in power, and nobody except oil companies really cared much about them.
>>RAWA did not exist until the Taliban were in danger, >>whereupon their first campaign was to protect the >>Taliban. > > That's quite ridiculous and shows you don't know anything about the > things you reply to. > > I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or so when the Taliban > were secure in power, and nobody except oil companies really cared much > about them. > > They've been around since the 1970s IIRC...
James Donald is a pathological liar, who constantly posts the most ridiculous claims he can invent. RAWA was originally as an opposition group in 1977, shortly before the Soviet occupation. The Taliban didn't even exist back then. Founder Meena was assassinated in 1987. RAWA has since become the most principled opponent of the Taliban, risking their lives to document its crimes. They secretly videotaped brutal executions and smuggled the tapes to the West.
http://www.rawa.org/
-- Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/ Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/ News & Views for Anarchists & Activists: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind. -- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
James A. Donald
2005-06-01 23:29:37 EST
-- On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:42:09 -0700, Dan Clore > James Donald is a pathological liar, who constantly > posts the most ridiculous claims he can invent. RAWA > was originally as an opposition group in 1977,
That is what their website claims:
Let us see what the wayback machine says about RAWA www.archive.org. We find that the wayback machine says something rather different.
Interestingly for an organization that supposedly dates back to 1977, their web site appears in 1998
And guess what their very first article on that website is:
: : The US Bares its Fangs to its Flunkeys : : : : Last night the world was astounded by the news : : of US missile strikes against targets in : : Afghanistan and the Sudan.
This supposedly feminist, supposedly anti fundamentalist organization appeared in 1998, and from its first appearance, from the beginning its primary business has been to steadfastly defend arab male fundamentalists from physical, political, and cultural attack by the west.
When Clinton opened fire on Osama Bin Laden for the very first time, after some horrendous terrorists attacks, then RAWA appeared from out of thin air, and told us: : : RAWA roundly condemns the US air strikes : : against Afghanistan because the impoverished : : masses of Afghanistan --already trapped in : : the dog-fighting between the US's Taliban and : : Jihadi flunkeys-- are the ones who are most : : hurt in the attacks, and also because the US, : : like the arrogant superpower she is, has : : violated the sovereignty of the Afghan people : : and the territorial integrity of the Afghan : : homeland.
The Taliban flogging women did not cause RAWA to post an article or start a website.
The Taliban burying women alive did not cause RAWA to post an article or start a website.
The Taliban organizing mass rapes and abductions did not cause RAWA to post an article or start a website.
What caused RAWA to start a website and post an article was the US violating the Taliban's territorial integrity.
Some feminists!
--digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG GBohJv+awf9Uvg5CiIUkfbIJSTfoJTBhCNp/+CfI 4oVa3za31R86vQwYWi+uG6JiyoJ8j8C3xvZ/B9Dil
-- http://www.jim.com
James A. Donald
2005-06-02 00:04:55 EST
-- James Donald wrote: > > RAWA did not exist until the Taliban were in danger, > > whereupon their first campaign was to protect the > > Taliban.
Bruce Scott TOK > That's quite ridiculous and shows you don't know > anything about the things you reply to. > > I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or > so when the Taliban were secure in power, and nobody > except oil companies really cared much about them. > > They've been around since the 1970s IIRC...
Liar
--digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG a5O2VKZE73lHfTJRCfdaiKmXHJh8mvDxpCsHVTP9 4agX2VF7uncY+zzLRLLXVHYKL7f2t0oTz0Vj5tRz4
-- http://www.jim.com
M J Carley
2005-06-02 03:57:46 EST
In the referenced article, James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> writes: > -- >On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:42:09 -0700, Dan Clore >> James Donald is a pathological liar, who constantly >> posts the most ridiculous claims he can invent. RAWA >> was originally as an opposition group in 1977, > >That is what their website claims: > >Let us see what the wayback machine says about RAWA >www.archive.org. We find that the wayback machine says >something rather different. > >Interestingly for an organization that supposedly dates >back to 1977, their web site appears in 1998
I did a check for some well-known sites: www.harvard.edu first appears in 1997, www.cam.ac.uk likewise, thus proving that Harvard and Cambridge Universities are only recently established.
>This supposedly feminist, supposedly anti fundamentalist organization >appeared in 1998, and from its first appearance, from the beginning >its primary business has been to steadfastly defend arab male >fundamentalists from physical, political, and cultural attack by the >west.
You honestly believe that the first thing a political movement in Afghanistan would do is set up a website?
>The Taliban flogging women did not cause RAWA to post an >article or start a website. > >The Taliban burying women alive did not cause RAWA to >post an article or start a website. > >The Taliban organizing mass rapes and abductions did not >cause RAWA to post an article or start a website. > >What caused RAWA to start a website and post an article >was the US violating the Taliban's territorial >integrity. > >Some feminists!
Indeed. A statement from their website, issued in December 1998.
http://www.rawa.org/dec10-98.htm
Resolution of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA) in regard to December 10, International Human Rights Day
Overthrow of Jihadi and Taliban Criminals is the Only Guarantee of Human Rights in Afghanistan
At a time when the peoples of the world are celebrating 50th Anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the people of Afghanistan and in particular the agonised women of Afghanistan are being brutalised in the most tragically inhuman conditions. Afghan women are deprived of the most basic human rights. The Taliban with their ultra-reactionary mentality have so savagely assaulted the rights and the most private aspects of the life of our people that no parallel or equivalent can be found in any Muslim or non-Muslim country in the world. These creatures from the dark ages have brought to perfection the misogyny, the compulsion for the suppression of liberty, the penchant for carnage and looting, and the psychopathic urge to insult and humiliate the people that was the hallmarks of their Jihadi brethren-in-creed. The total disfranchisement of women of the very elementary human rights is their masterpiece. Afghanistan in the flames of Taliban ignorance and infamy has become a roaring inferno. Marking December 10 as International Human Rights Day by the world community and human rights organisations would be meaningless without unequivocal condemnation of the Taliban who deride the civilised concept of Human Rights. ...
-- Differenza fra il rivoluzionaro e il cialtrone. Il rivoluzionario rompe l'orologio e invece di presentarsi alle nove si presenta alle nove meno cinque. Il cialtrone rompe l'orologio e si alza alle undici. Home page: http://people.bath.ac.uk/ensmjc/
Dan Clore
2005-06-02 06:36:35 EST
M J Carley wrote: > In the referenced article, James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> writes: >>On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:42:09 -0700, Dan Clore
>>>James Donald is a pathological liar, who constantly >>>posts the most ridiculous claims he can invent. RAWA >>>was originally as an opposition group in 1977, >> >>That is what their website claims: >> >>Let us see what the wayback machine says about RAWA >>www.archive.org. We find that the wayback machine says >>something rather different. >> >>Interestingly for an organization that supposedly dates >>back to 1977, their web site appears in 1998 > > I did a check for some well-known sites: www.harvard.edu first appears > in 1997, www.cam.ac.uk likewise, thus proving that Harvard and > Cambridge Universities are only recently established. > >>This supposedly feminist, supposedly anti fundamentalist organization >>appeared in 1998, and from its first appearance, from the beginning >>its primary business has been to steadfastly defend arab male >>fundamentalists from physical, political, and cultural attack by the >>west. > > You honestly believe that the first thing a political movement in > Afghanistan would do is set up a website? > >>The Taliban flogging women did not cause RAWA to post an >>article or start a website. >> >>The Taliban burying women alive did not cause RAWA to >>post an article or start a website. >> >>The Taliban organizing mass rapes and abductions did not >>cause RAWA to post an article or start a website. >> >>What caused RAWA to start a website and post an article >>was the US violating the Taliban's territorial >>integrity. >> >>Some feminists! > > Indeed. A statement from their website, issued in December 1998. > > http://www.rawa.org/dec10-98.htm > > Resolution of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of > Afghanistan (RAWA) in regard to December 10, International Human > Rights Day > > Overthrow of Jihadi and Taliban Criminals is the Only Guarantee of > Human Rights in Afghanistan > > At a time when the peoples of the world are celebrating 50th > Anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the people > of Afghanistan and in particular the agonised women of Afghanistan > are being brutalised in the most tragically inhuman > conditions. Afghan women are deprived of the most basic human > rights. The Taliban with their ultra-reactionary mentality have so > savagely assaulted the rights and the most private aspects of the > life of our people that no parallel or equivalent can be found in > any Muslim or non-Muslim country in the world. These creatures from > the dark ages have brought to perfection the misogyny, the > compulsion for the suppression of liberty, the penchant for carnage > and looting, and the psychopathic urge to insult and humiliate the > people that was the hallmarks of their Jihadi brethren-in-creed. The > total disfranchisement of women of the very elementary human rights > is their masterpiece. Afghanistan in the flames of Taliban ignorance > and infamy has become a roaring inferno. Marking December 10 as > International Human Rights Day by the world community and human > rights organisations would be meaningless without unequivocal > condemnation of the Taliban who deride the civilised concept of > Human Rights. ...
In addition to all this, should I mention again that they secretly videotaped Taliban atrocities, which were shown on the Oprah Winfrey Show in December, 2000?
That doesn't exactly sound like a group supporting the Taliban, does it?
-- Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/ Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/ News & Views for Anarchists & Activists: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind. -- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
Bruce Scott
2005-06-02 09:12:52 EST
James Donald wrote:
>James Donald wrote: >> > RAWA did not exist until the Taliban were in danger, >> > whereupon their first campaign was to protect the >> > Taliban. > >Bruce Scott TOK >> That's quite ridiculous and shows you don't know >> anything about the things you reply to. >> >> I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or >> so when the Taliban were secure in power, and nobody >> except oil companies really cared much about them. >> >> They've been around since the 1970s IIRC... > >Liar
Childish. You've been comprehensively shown up and this is your best reply.
I said:
>> I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or so
And MJ Carley recalls the first post I saw there:
|> Indeed. A statement from their website, issued in December 1998. |> |> http://www.rawa.org/dec10-98.htm |> |> Resolution of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of |> Afghanistan (RAWA) in regard to December 10, International Human |> Rights Day |> |> Overthrow of Jihadi and Taliban Criminals is the Only Guarantee of |> Human Rights in Afghanistan
How about answering for your claim that they are pro-Taliban...
Of course right wingers have been trained not to answer for their blunders.
``Always attack, never defend'' -- L Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology
"Bruce Scott" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:200506021312.j52DCqhS013550@ipp.mpg.de... > James Donald wrote: > > >James Donald wrote: > >> > RAWA did not exist until the Taliban were in danger, > >> > whereupon their first campaign was to protect the > >> > Taliban. > > > >Bruce Scott TOK > >> That's quite ridiculous and shows you don't know > >> anything about the things you reply to. > >> > >> I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or > >> so when the Taliban were secure in power, and nobody > >> except oil companies really cared much about them. > >> > >> They've been around since the 1970s IIRC... > > > >Liar > > Childish. You've been comprehensively shown up and this is your best > reply. > > I said: > > >> I used to read RAWA's website a lot, back in 1998 or so > > And MJ Carley recalls the first post I saw there: > > |> Indeed. A statement from their website, issued in December 1998. > |> > |> http://www.rawa.org/dec10-98.htm > |> > |> Resolution of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of > |> Afghanistan (RAWA) in regard to December 10, International Human > |> Rights Day > |> > |> Overthrow of Jihadi and Taliban Criminals is the Only Guarantee of > |> Human Rights in Afghanistan > > How about answering for your claim that they are pro-Taliban... >
well, see, opposing US bombing and occupation of Afghanistan makes you "pro-Taliban". It doesn't much matter what your position on the Taliban actually is. Similarly, protesting the US bombing and occupation of Iraq makes you "pro-Saddam".
Mere facts can't make a dent in these kind of axioms.