Activism Discussion: "Worse" Than Guantanamo: Bush Admin Holds 500 In Afghan Prison "worse" Than Gitmo

"Worse" Than Guantanamo: Bush Admin Holds 500 In Afghan Prison "worse" Than Gitmo
Posts: 9

Report Abuse

Use this form to report abuse or request takedown.
The requests are usually processed within 48 hours.

Page: 1   (First | Last)

I*@economicdemocracy.org
2006-02-27 12:16:20 EST
"..the Times reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in
wire cages, sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use
plastic buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees
rarely saw daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard...

"...evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail...."


= = = =

[Bush Admin]Holds 500 in Afghan Prison "Worse" Than Guantanamo

In Afghanistan the New York Times is reporting the U.S. military is now
indefinitely holding 500 detainees in wire cages at the Bagram air base
in primitive conditions described as worse than at Guantanamo.

The U.S. has been expanding the jail at Bagram at a time that
international pressure is growing to close Guantanamo.

Unlike detainees at Guantánamo, individuals held at the site in
Afghanistan have no access to lawyers and no right to hear the
allegations against them.

The U.S. military has barred any outside visitors except for the
International Red Cross. The prison may not even be photographed
[Stalin would
approve of that ban, nice going guys!] Comparing the prison with
Guantánamo, one Pentagon official said, "Anyone who has been to Bagram
would tell you it's worse."

Meanwhile four people have died inside another Afghan jail after
prisoners connected to the Taliban and al Qaeda took control of part of
the jail.

Police said at least 1,500 prisoners have barricaded themselves inside
the prison.


http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/27/1519228

Full story here:

Monday, February 27th, 2006
"Worse" Than Guantanamo: U.S. Expands Secretive Prison Inside Bagram
Air Base in Afghanistan

Listen to Segment || Download Show mp3
Watch 128k stream Watch 256k stream

The U.S. is holding 500 at the base in wire cages at the Bagram Air
Base, north of Kabul in Afghanistan. Some have been detained for up to
three years. They have never been charged with crimes. They have no
access to lawyers. They are barred from hearing the allegations against
them. Officials describe the jail's conditions as primitive. We speak
with human rights attorneys Clive Stafford Smith and Michael Ratner.

"While an international debate rages over the future of the
American detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the military has
quietly expanded another, less-visible prison in Afghanistan, where it
now holds some 500 terror suspects in more primitive conditions,
indefinitely and without charges."

That is the opening line of a front-page article in Sunday's New York
Times detailing the US-run prison at Bagram Air Base, north of Kabul.
The Times reports that some of the detainees at Bagram have been held
for as long as two or three years. Unlike those at Guantanamo, they
have no access to lawyers, no right to hear the allegations against
them and only rudimentary reviews of their status as "enemy
combatants." One Pentagon official told the Times the current average
stay of prisoners at Bagram was 14.5 months.

The numbers of detainees at the base had risen from about 100 at the
start of 2004 to as many as 600 at times last year. The paper says the
increase is in part the result of a decision by the U.S. government to
shut off the flow of detainees to Guantanamo Bay after the Supreme
Court ruled that those prisoners had some basic due-process rights. The
question of whether those same rights apply to detainees in Bagram has
not been tested in court.

While Guantanamo offers carefully scripted tours for members of
Congress and journalists, Bagram has operated in rigorous secrecy since
it opened in 2002. It bars outside visitors except for the
International Red Cross and refuses to make public the names of those
held there. The prison may not be photographed, even from a distance.

Citing unnamed military officials and former detainees, the Times
reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in wire cages,
sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use plastic
buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees rarely saw
daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard. The U.S.
military on Sunday defended Bagram air base saying detainees there are
treated humanely and provided "the best possible living conditions."

But evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail.

We are joined on the line by Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human
rights lawyer who represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of
whom passed through Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the
charity Reprieve. We are also joined by Michael Ratner, president of
the Center for Constitutional Rights.

* Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human rights lawyer who
represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of whom passed through
Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the charity Reprieve.
* Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional
Rights.

With links to audio/video later today, as well as transcript:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/27/1519239

= = = =
STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA
IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON?
= = = =
Daily online radio show, news reporting: www.DemocracyNow.org
More news: UseNet's misc.activism.progressive (moderated)
= = = =
Sorry, we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email
FOR MORE INFORMATION: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace)
http://economicdemocracy.org/eco/climate-summary.html (Climate)
And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general)


** ANTI-SPAM NOTE: For EMAIL "info" and "map" DON'T work. Email to
** m-a-i-l-m-a-i-l (without the dashes)at economicdemocracy.org instead


O*@aol.com
2006-02-27 12:34:46 EST
Still sobbing hysterically over terrorists being "mistreated," I see.
Thank Allah they have you there to cry for them, appeaser. Continue
wailing :)

i*o@economicdemocracy.org wrote:
> "..the Times reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in
> wire cages, sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use
> plastic buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees
> rarely saw daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard...
>
> "...evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
> years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
> by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
> investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
> deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
> that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
> has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
> and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail...."
>
>
> = = = =
>
> [Bush Admin]Holds 500 in Afghan Prison "Worse" Than Guantanamo
>
> In Afghanistan the New York Times is reporting the U.S. military is now
> indefinitely holding 500 detainees in wire cages at the Bagram air base
> in primitive conditions described as worse than at Guantanamo.
>
> The U.S. has been expanding the jail at Bagram at a time that
> international pressure is growing to close Guantanamo.
>
> Unlike detainees at Guantánamo, individuals held at the site in
> Afghanistan have no access to lawyers and no right to hear the
> allegations against them.
>
> The U.S. military has barred any outside visitors except for the
> International Red Cross. The prison may not even be photographed
> [Stalin would
> approve of that ban, nice going guys!] Comparing the prison with
> Guantánamo, one Pentagon official said, "Anyone who has been to Bagram
> would tell you it's worse."
>
> Meanwhile four people have died inside another Afghan jail after
> prisoners connected to the Taliban and al Qaeda took control of part of
> the jail.
>
> Police said at least 1,500 prisoners have barricaded themselves inside
> the prison.
>
>
> http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/27/1519228
>
> Full story here:
>
> Monday, February 27th, 2006
> "Worse" Than Guantanamo: U.S. Expands Secretive Prison Inside Bagram
> Air Base in Afghanistan
>
> Listen to Segment || Download Show mp3
> Watch 128k stream Watch 256k stream
>
> The U.S. is holding 500 at the base in wire cages at the Bagram Air
> Base, north of Kabul in Afghanistan. Some have been detained for up to
> three years. They have never been charged with crimes. They have no
> access to lawyers. They are barred from hearing the allegations against
> them. Officials describe the jail's conditions as primitive. We speak
> with human rights attorneys Clive Stafford Smith and Michael Ratner.
>
> "While an international debate rages over the future of the
> American detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the military has
> quietly expanded another, less-visible prison in Afghanistan, where it
> now holds some 500 terror suspects in more primitive conditions,
> indefinitely and without charges."
>
> That is the opening line of a front-page article in Sunday's New York
> Times detailing the US-run prison at Bagram Air Base, north of Kabul.
> The Times reports that some of the detainees at Bagram have been held
> for as long as two or three years. Unlike those at Guantanamo, they
> have no access to lawyers, no right to hear the allegations against
> them and only rudimentary reviews of their status as "enemy
> combatants." One Pentagon official told the Times the current average
> stay of prisoners at Bagram was 14.5 months.
>
> The numbers of detainees at the base had risen from about 100 at the
> start of 2004 to as many as 600 at times last year. The paper says the
> increase is in part the result of a decision by the U.S. government to
> shut off the flow of detainees to Guantanamo Bay after the Supreme
> Court ruled that those prisoners had some basic due-process rights. The
> question of whether those same rights apply to detainees in Bagram has
> not been tested in court.
>
> While Guantanamo offers carefully scripted tours for members of
> Congress and journalists, Bagram has operated in rigorous secrecy since
> it opened in 2002. It bars outside visitors except for the
> International Red Cross and refuses to make public the names of those
> held there. The prison may not be photographed, even from a distance.
>
> Citing unnamed military officials and former detainees, the Times
> reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in wire cages,
> sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use plastic
> buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees rarely saw
> daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard. The U.S.
> military on Sunday defended Bagram air base saying detainees there are
> treated humanely and provided "the best possible living conditions."
>
> But evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
> years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
> by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
> investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
> deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
> that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
> has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
> and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail.
>
> We are joined on the line by Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human
> rights lawyer who represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of
> whom passed through Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the
> charity Reprieve. We are also joined by Michael Ratner, president of
> the Center for Constitutional Rights.
>
> * Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human rights lawyer who
> represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of whom passed through
> Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the charity Reprieve.
> * Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional
> Rights.
>
> With links to audio/video later today, as well as transcript:
>
> http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/27/1519239
>
> = = = =
> STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA
> IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON?
> = = = =
> Daily online radio show, news reporting: www.DemocracyNow.org
> More news: UseNet's misc.activism.progressive (moderated)
> = = = =
> Sorry, we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email
> FOR MORE INFORMATION: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace)
> http://economicdemocracy.org/eco/climate-summary.html (Climate)
> And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general)
>
>
> ** ANTI-SPAM NOTE: For EMAIL "info" and "map" DON'T work. Email to
> ** m-a-i-l-m-a-i-l (without the dashes)at economicdemocracy.org instead


I*@economicdemocracy.org
2006-02-27 19:31:52 EST
Sinking to a new moral low,

o*t@aol.com wrote:
> Still sobbing hysterically over terrorists being "mistreated," I see.
> Thank Allah they have you there to cry for them, appeaser. Continue
> wailing :)

It's nice to see that you are using Stalin's definition of "terrorist"

Anyone who believes in torture is a sicko, but anyone
who believes in torture for people who have not been
convicted of any crime, or even put on trial, or even
had charges brought against them, is using Stalin's
definition of "terrorist"

Anyone who say's it's ok to torture because, hey,
after all, they're terrorists, in a case where
there is no coniction OR no charges OR no trial
OR no access to lawyers is using Stalin's
definition (and presumably have a similarly
monsterous ideology as Stalin) and
all the more Stalinist too when anyone
says it's ok to
torture when there are no lawyers AND
no charges brought against you AND
no trial AND no conviction ...

But it's far worse than even that, since
on top of all of that, people have been release
and ADMITTED by Bush, UK, etc to have been
innocent AFTER having been held without charges,
AFTER being tortured,...this isn't anyone
"claiming" this is ADMITTED in those cases.

Good thinkg you're anonymous. Stay that way.
If you were not anonymous, your Stalinist
cowardly nonsense about "cry for them" and "appease"
and other drivel would have their mothers, sister,
wives, and daughters (never mind their fathers,
brothers, sons, etc) tear your limb from limb with
their bare hands. Not that I would be happy, since
I don't believe in torture, not even for criminal
minds like yours, it's just a fact I'm stating that
the relatives of some of those being held without
charges and tortured, and later released as
'oops our mistake' some would, it's merely
a fact to state, tear you apart with their
bare hands, limb from limb, mentally at least,
perhaps physically....


> info@economicdemocracy.org wrote:
> > "..the Times reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in
> > wire cages, sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use
> > plastic buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees
> > rarely saw daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard...
> >
> > "...evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
> > years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
> > by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
> > investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
> > deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
> > that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
> > has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
> > and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail...."
> >
> >
> > =3D =3D =3D =3D
> >
> > [Bush Admin]Holds 500 in Afghan Prison "Worse" Than Guantanamo
> >
> > In Afghanistan the New York Times is reporting the U.S. military is now
> > indefinitely holding 500 detainees in wire cages at the Bagram air base
> > in primitive conditions described as worse than at Guantanamo.
> >
> > The U.S. has been expanding the jail at Bagram at a time that
> > international pressure is growing to close Guantanamo.
> >
> > Unlike detainees at Guant=E1namo, individuals held at the site in
> > Afghanistan have no access to lawyers and no right to hear the
> > allegations against them.
> >
> > The U.S. military has barred any outside visitors except for the
> > International Red Cross. The prison may not even be photographed
> > [Stalin would
> > approve of that ban, nice going guys!] Comparing the prison with
> > Guant=E1namo, one Pentagon official said, "Anyone who has been to Bagram
> > would tell you it's worse."
> >
> > Meanwhile four people have died inside another Afghan jail after
> > prisoners connected to the Taliban and al Qaeda took control of part of
> > the jail.
> >
> > Police said at least 1,500 prisoners have barricaded themselves inside
> > the prison.
> >
> >
> > http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=3D06/02/27/1519228
> >
> > Full story here:
> >
> > Monday, February 27th, 2006
> > "Worse" Than Guantanamo: U.S. Expands Secretive Prison Inside Bagram
> > Air Base in Afghanistan
> >
> > Listen to Segment || Download Show mp3
> > Watch 128k stream Watch 256k stream
> >
> > The U.S. is holding 500 at the base in wire cages at the Bagram Air
> > Base, north of Kabul in Afghanistan. Some have been detained for up to
> > three years. They have never been charged with crimes. They have no
> > access to lawyers. They are barred from hearing the allegations against
> > them. Officials describe the jail's conditions as primitive. We speak
> > with human rights attorneys Clive Stafford Smith and Michael Ratner.
> >
> > "While an international debate rages over the future of the
> > American detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the military has
> > quietly expanded another, less-visible prison in Afghanistan, where it
> > now holds some 500 terror suspects in more primitive conditions,
> > indefinitely and without charges."
> >
> > That is the opening line of a front-page article in Sunday's New York
> > Times detailing the US-run prison at Bagram Air Base, north of Kabul.
> > The Times reports that some of the detainees at Bagram have been held
> > for as long as two or three years. Unlike those at Guantanamo, they
> > have no access to lawyers, no right to hear the allegations against
> > them and only rudimentary reviews of their status as "enemy
> > combatants." One Pentagon official told the Times the current average
> > stay of prisoners at Bagram was 14.5 months.
> >
> > The numbers of detainees at the base had risen from about 100 at the
> > start of 2004 to as many as 600 at times last year. The paper says the
> > increase is in part the result of a decision by the U.S. government to
> > shut off the flow of detainees to Guantanamo Bay after the Supreme
> > Court ruled that those prisoners had some basic due-process rights. The
> > question of whether those same rights apply to detainees in Bagram has
> > not been tested in court.
> >
> > While Guantanamo offers carefully scripted tours for members of
> > Congress and journalists, Bagram has operated in rigorous secrecy since
> > it opened in 2002. It bars outside visitors except for the
> > International Red Cross and refuses to make public the names of those
> > held there. The prison may not be photographed, even from a distance.
> >
> > Citing unnamed military officials and former detainees, the Times
> > reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in wire cages,
> > sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use plastic
> > buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees rarely saw
> > daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard. The U.S.
> > military on Sunday defended Bagram air base saying detainees there are
> > treated humanely and provided "the best possible living conditions."
> >
> > But evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
> > years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
> > by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
> > investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
> > deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
> > that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
> > has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
> > and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail.
> >
> > We are joined on the line by Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human
> > rights lawyer who represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of
> > whom passed through Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the
> > charity Reprieve. We are also joined by Michael Ratner, president of
> > the Center for Constitutional Rights.
> >
> > * Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human rights lawyer who
> > represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of whom passed through
> > Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the charity Reprieve.
> > * Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional
> > Rights.
> >
> > With links to audio/video later today, as well as transcript:
> >
> > http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=3D06/02/27/1519239
> >
> > =3D =3D =3D =3D
> > STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA
> > IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON?
> > =3D =3D =3D =3D
> > Daily online radio show, news reporting: www.DemocracyNow.org
> > More news: UseNet's misc.activism.progressive (moderated)
> > =3D =3D =3D =3D
> > Sorry, we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email
> > FOR MORE INFORMATION: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace)
> > http://economicdemocracy.org/eco/climate-summary.html (Climate)
> > And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general)
> >
> >
> > ** ANTI-SPAM NOTE: For EMAIL "info" and "map" DON'T work. Email to
> > ** m-a-i-l-m-a-i-l (without the dashes)at economicdemocracy.org instead


Defendario
2006-02-27 21:17:07 EST
i*o@economicdemocracy.org wrote:

> Sinking to a new moral low,
>
> omarenoryt@aol.com wrote:
>
>>Still sobbing hysterically over terrorists being "mistreated," I see.
>>Thank Allah they have you there to cry for them, appeaser. Continue
>>wailing :)
>
>
> It's nice to see that you are using Stalin's definition of "terrorist"
>

Omar, aka Stain the STD, is a known fascist and hater of all types of
progressive thinking. Had he been alive 2000 years ago, he would have
been agitating for the crucifixion.

> Anyone who believes in torture is a sicko, but anyone
> who believes in torture for people who have not been
> convicted of any crime, or even put on trial, or even
> had charges brought against them, is using Stalin's
> definition of "terrorist"
>
> Anyone who say's it's ok to torture because, hey,
> after all, they're terrorists, in a case where
> there is no coniction OR no charges OR no trial
> OR no access to lawyers is using Stalin's
> definition (and presumably have a similarly
> monsterous ideology as Stalin) and
> all the more Stalinist too when anyone
> says it's ok to
> torture when there are no lawyers AND
> no charges brought against you AND
> no trial AND no conviction ...
>
> But it's far worse than even that, since
> on top of all of that, people have been release
> and ADMITTED by Bush, UK, etc to have been
> innocent AFTER having been held without charges,
> AFTER being tortured,...this isn't anyone
> "claiming" this is ADMITTED in those cases.
>
> Good thinkg you're anonymous. Stay that way.
> If you were not anonymous, your Stalinist
> cowardly nonsense about "cry for them" and "appease"
> and other drivel would have their mothers, sister,
> wives, and daughters (never mind their fathers,
> brothers, sons, etc) tear your limb from limb with
> their bare hands. Not that I would be happy, since
> I don't believe in torture, not even for criminal
> minds like yours, it's just a fact I'm stating that
> the relatives of some of those being held without
> charges and tortured, and later released as
> 'oops our mistake' some would, it's merely
> a fact to state, tear you apart with their
> bare hands, limb from limb, mentally at least,
> perhaps physically....
>
>
>
>>info@economicdemocracy.org wrote:
>>
>>>"..the Times reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in
>>>wire cages, sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use
>>>plastic buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees
>>>rarely saw daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard...
>>>
>>>"...evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
>>>years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
>>>by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
>>>investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
>>>deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
>>>that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
>>>has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
>>>and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail...."
>>>
>>>
>>>= = = =
>>>
>>>[Bush Admin]Holds 500 in Afghan Prison "Worse" Than Guantanamo
>>>
>>>In Afghanistan the New York Times is reporting the U.S. military is now
>>>indefinitely holding 500 detainees in wire cages at the Bagram air base
>>>in primitive conditions described as worse than at Guantanamo.
>>>
>>>The U.S. has been expanding the jail at Bagram at a time that
>>>international pressure is growing to close Guantanamo.
>>>
>>>Unlike detainees at Guantánamo, individuals held at the site in
>>>Afghanistan have no access to lawyers and no right to hear the
>>>allegations against them.
>>>
>>>The U.S. military has barred any outside visitors except for the
>>>International Red Cross. The prison may not even be photographed
>>>[Stalin would
>>>approve of that ban, nice going guys!] Comparing the prison with
>>>Guantánamo, one Pentagon official said, "Anyone who has been to Bagram
>>>would tell you it's worse."
>>>
>>>Meanwhile four people have died inside another Afghan jail after
>>>prisoners connected to the Taliban and al Qaeda took control of part of
>>>the jail.
>>>
>>>Police said at least 1,500 prisoners have barricaded themselves inside
>>>the prison.
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/27/1519228
>>>
>>>Full story here:
>>>
>>>Monday, February 27th, 2006
>>>"Worse" Than Guantanamo: U.S. Expands Secretive Prison Inside Bagram
>>>Air Base in Afghanistan
>>>
>>>Listen to Segment || Download Show mp3
>>>Watch 128k stream Watch 256k stream
>>>
>>>The U.S. is holding 500 at the base in wire cages at the Bagram Air
>>>Base, north of Kabul in Afghanistan. Some have been detained for up to
>>>three years. They have never been charged with crimes. They have no
>>>access to lawyers. They are barred from hearing the allegations against
>>>them. Officials describe the jail's conditions as primitive. We speak
>>>with human rights attorneys Clive Stafford Smith and Michael Ratner.
>>>
>>> "While an international debate rages over the future of the
>>>American detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the military has
>>>quietly expanded another, less-visible prison in Afghanistan, where it
>>>now holds some 500 terror suspects in more primitive conditions,
>>>indefinitely and without charges."
>>>
>>>That is the opening line of a front-page article in Sunday's New York
>>>Times detailing the US-run prison at Bagram Air Base, north of Kabul.
>>>The Times reports that some of the detainees at Bagram have been held
>>>for as long as two or three years. Unlike those at Guantanamo, they
>>>have no access to lawyers, no right to hear the allegations against
>>>them and only rudimentary reviews of their status as "enemy
>>>combatants." One Pentagon official told the Times the current average
>>>stay of prisoners at Bagram was 14.5 months.
>>>
>>>The numbers of detainees at the base had risen from about 100 at the
>>>start of 2004 to as many as 600 at times last year. The paper says the
>>>increase is in part the result of a decision by the U.S. government to
>>>shut off the flow of detainees to Guantanamo Bay after the Supreme
>>>Court ruled that those prisoners had some basic due-process rights. The
>>>question of whether those same rights apply to detainees in Bagram has
>>>not been tested in court.
>>>
>>>While Guantanamo offers carefully scripted tours for members of
>>>Congress and journalists, Bagram has operated in rigorous secrecy since
>>>it opened in 2002. It bars outside visitors except for the
>>>International Red Cross and refuses to make public the names of those
>>>held there. The prison may not be photographed, even from a distance.
>>>
>>>Citing unnamed military officials and former detainees, the Times
>>>reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in wire cages,
>>>sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use plastic
>>>buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees rarely saw
>>>daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard. The U.S.
>>>military on Sunday defended Bagram air base saying detainees there are
>>>treated humanely and provided "the best possible living conditions."
>>>
>>>But evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
>>>years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
>>>by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
>>>investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
>>>deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
>>>that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
>>>has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
>>>and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail.
>>>
>>>We are joined on the line by Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human
>>>rights lawyer who represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of
>>>whom passed through Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the
>>>charity Reprieve. We are also joined by Michael Ratner, president of
>>>the Center for Constitutional Rights.
>>>
>>> * Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human rights lawyer who
>>>represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of whom passed through
>>>Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the charity Reprieve.
>>> * Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional
>>>Rights.
>>>
>>>With links to audio/video later today, as well as transcript:
>>>
>>>http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/27/1519239
>>>
>>>= = = =
>>>STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA
>>>IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON?
>>>= = = =
>>>Daily online radio show, news reporting: www.DemocracyNow.org
>>>More news: UseNet's misc.activism.progressive (moderated)
>>>= = = =
>>>Sorry, we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email
>>>FOR MORE INFORMATION: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace)
>>>http://economicdemocracy.org/eco/climate-summary.html (Climate)
>>>And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general)
>>>
>>>
>>>** ANTI-SPAM NOTE: For EMAIL "info" and "map" DON'T work. Email to
>>>** m-a-i-l-m-a-i-l (without the dashes)at economicdemocracy.org instead
>
>
>



Eagle
2006-02-28 10:13:24 EST
The prisoners were treated exceptionaly well. Heads & hands were cut &
chopped off with a very sharp knife & sword. One was throwned off a 3
story building & even given a chance to fly away !!!


O*@aol.com
2006-02-28 12:21:19 EST

i*o@economicdemocracy.org wrote:
> Sinking to a new moral low,
>
> omarenoryt@aol.com wrote:
> > Still sobbing hysterically over terrorists being "mistreated," I see.
> > Thank Allah they have you there to cry for them, appeaser. Continue
> > wailing :)
>
> It's nice to see that you are using Stalin's definition of "terrorist"
>
> Anyone who believes in torture is a sicko, but anyone
> who believes in torture for people who have not been
> convicted of any crime, or even put on trial, or even
> had charges brought against them, is using Stalin's
> definition of "terrorist"

I'm just stunned that anyone gives a fuck what happens to terrorists,
but underestimating the insane priorities of the left is never a smart
thing to do. Anyway, continue your temper tantrums, sympathizer.

>
> Anyone who say's it's ok to torture because, hey,
> after all, they're terrorists, in a case where
> there is no coniction OR no charges OR no trial
> OR no access to lawyers is using Stalin's
> definition (and presumably have a similarly
> monsterous ideology as Stalin) and
> all the more Stalinist too when anyone
> says it's ok to
> torture when there are no lawyers AND
> no charges brought against you AND
> no trial AND no conviction ...
>
> But it's far worse than even that, since
> on top of all of that, people have been release
> and ADMITTED by Bush, UK, etc to have been
> innocent AFTER having been held without charges,
> AFTER being tortured,...this isn't anyone
> "claiming" this is ADMITTED in those cases.
>
> Good thinkg you're anonymous. Stay that way.
> If you were not anonymous, your Stalinist
> cowardly nonsense about "cry for them" and "appease"
> and other drivel would have their mothers, sister,
> wives, and daughters (never mind their fathers,
> brothers, sons, etc) tear your limb from limb with
> their bare hands. Not that I would be happy, since
> I don't believe in torture, not even for criminal
> minds like yours, it's just a fact I'm stating that
> the relatives of some of those being held without
> charges and tortured, and later released as
> 'oops our mistake' some would, it's merely
> a fact to state, tear you apart with their
> bare hands, limb from limb, mentally at least,
> perhaps physically....
>
>
> > info@economicdemocracy.org wrote:
> > > "..the Times reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in
> > > wire cages, sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use
> > > plastic buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees
> > > rarely saw daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard...
> > >
> > > "...evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
> > > years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
> > > by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
> > > investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
> > > deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
> > > that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
> > > has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
> > > and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail...."
> > >
> > >
> > > = = = =
> > >
> > > [Bush Admin]Holds 500 in Afghan Prison "Worse" Than Guantanamo
> > >
> > > In Afghanistan the New York Times is reporting the U.S. military is now
> > > indefinitely holding 500 detainees in wire cages at the Bagram air base
> > > in primitive conditions described as worse than at Guantanamo.
> > >
> > > The U.S. has been expanding the jail at Bagram at a time that
> > > international pressure is growing to close Guantanamo.
> > >
> > > Unlike detainees at Guantánamo, individuals held at the site in
> > > Afghanistan have no access to lawyers and no right to hear the
> > > allegations against them.
> > >
> > > The U.S. military has barred any outside visitors except for the
> > > International Red Cross. The prison may not even be photographed
> > > [Stalin would
> > > approve of that ban, nice going guys!] Comparing the prison with
> > > Guantánamo, one Pentagon official said, "Anyone who has been to Bagram
> > > would tell you it's worse."
> > >
> > > Meanwhile four people have died inside another Afghan jail after
> > > prisoners connected to the Taliban and al Qaeda took control of part of
> > > the jail.
> > >
> > > Police said at least 1,500 prisoners have barricaded themselves inside
> > > the prison.
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/27/1519228
> > >
> > > Full story here:
> > >
> > > Monday, February 27th, 2006
> > > "Worse" Than Guantanamo: U.S. Expands Secretive Prison Inside Bagram
> > > Air Base in Afghanistan
> > >
> > > Listen to Segment || Download Show mp3
> > > Watch 128k stream Watch 256k stream
> > >
> > > The U.S. is holding 500 at the base in wire cages at the Bagram Air
> > > Base, north of Kabul in Afghanistan. Some have been detained for up to
> > > three years. They have never been charged with crimes. They have no
> > > access to lawyers. They are barred from hearing the allegations against
> > > them. Officials describe the jail's conditions as primitive. We speak
> > > with human rights attorneys Clive Stafford Smith and Michael Ratner.
> > >
> > > "While an international debate rages over the future of the
> > > American detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the military has
> > > quietly expanded another, less-visible prison in Afghanistan, where it
> > > now holds some 500 terror suspects in more primitive conditions,
> > > indefinitely and without charges."
> > >
> > > That is the opening line of a front-page article in Sunday's New York
> > > Times detailing the US-run prison at Bagram Air Base, north of Kabul.
> > > The Times reports that some of the detainees at Bagram have been held
> > > for as long as two or three years. Unlike those at Guantanamo, they
> > > have no access to lawyers, no right to hear the allegations against
> > > them and only rudimentary reviews of their status as "enemy
> > > combatants." One Pentagon official told the Times the current average
> > > stay of prisoners at Bagram was 14.5 months.
> > >
> > > The numbers of detainees at the base had risen from about 100 at the
> > > start of 2004 to as many as 600 at times last year. The paper says the
> > > increase is in part the result of a decision by the U.S. government to
> > > shut off the flow of detainees to Guantanamo Bay after the Supreme
> > > Court ruled that those prisoners had some basic due-process rights. The
> > > question of whether those same rights apply to detainees in Bagram has
> > > not been tested in court.
> > >
> > > While Guantanamo offers carefully scripted tours for members of
> > > Congress and journalists, Bagram has operated in rigorous secrecy since
> > > it opened in 2002. It bars outside visitors except for the
> > > International Red Cross and refuses to make public the names of those
> > > held there. The prison may not be photographed, even from a distance.
> > >
> > > Citing unnamed military officials and former detainees, the Times
> > > reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in wire cages,
> > > sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use plastic
> > > buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees rarely saw
> > > daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard. The U.S.
> > > military on Sunday defended Bagram air base saying detainees there are
> > > treated humanely and provided "the best possible living conditions."
> > >
> > > But evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
> > > years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
> > > by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
> > > investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
> > > deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
> > > that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
> > > has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
> > > and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail.
> > >
> > > We are joined on the line by Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human
> > > rights lawyer who represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of
> > > whom passed through Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the
> > > charity Reprieve. We are also joined by Michael Ratner, president of
> > > the Center for Constitutional Rights.
> > >
> > > * Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human rights lawyer who
> > > represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of whom passed through
> > > Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the charity Reprieve.
> > > * Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional
> > > Rights.
> > >
> > > With links to audio/video later today, as well as transcript:
> > >
> > > http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/27/1519239
> > >
> > > = = = =
> > > STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA
> > > IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON?
> > > = = = =
> > > Daily online radio show, news reporting: www.DemocracyNow.org
> > > More news: UseNet's misc.activism.progressive (moderated)
> > > = = = =
> > > Sorry, we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email
> > > FOR MORE INFORMATION: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace)
> > > http://economicdemocracy.org/eco/climate-summary.html (Climate)
> > > And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general)
> > >
> > >
> > > ** ANTI-SPAM NOTE: For EMAIL "info" and "map" DON'T work. Email to
> > > ** m-a-i-l-m-a-i-l (without the dashes)at economicdemocracy.org instead


Stan De SD
2006-02-28 19:03:35 EST

"Defendario" <Defendario@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:46hq5jFaevokU1@individual.net...
i*o@economicdemocracy.org wrote:

> Sinking to a new moral low,
>
> omarenoryt@aol.com wrote:
>
>>Still sobbing hysterically over terrorists being "mistreated," I see.
>>Thank Allah they have you there to cry for them, appeaser. Continue
>>wailing :)
>
>
> It's nice to see that you are using Stalin's definition of "terrorist"
>

Omar, aka Stain the STD, is a known fascist and hater of all types of
progressive thinking. Had he been alive 2000 years ago, he would have
been agitating for the crucifixion.

> Anyone who believes in torture is a sicko, but anyone
> who believes in torture for people who have not been
> convicted of any crime, or even put on trial, or even
> had charges brought against them, is using Stalin's
> definition of "terrorist"
>
> Anyone who say's it's ok to torture because, hey,
> after all, they're terrorists, in a case where
> there is no coniction OR no charges OR no trial
> OR no access to lawyers is using Stalin's
> definition (and presumably have a similarly
> monsterous ideology as Stalin) and
> all the more Stalinist too when anyone
> says it's ok to
> torture when there are no lawyers AND
> no charges brought against you AND
> no trial AND no conviction ...
>
> But it's far worse than even that, since
> on top of all of that, people have been release
> and ADMITTED by Bush, UK, etc to have been
> innocent AFTER having been held without charges,
> AFTER being tortured,...this isn't anyone
> "claiming" this is ADMITTED in those cases.
>
> Good thinkg you're anonymous. Stay that way.
> If you were not anonymous, your Stalinist
> cowardly nonsense about "cry for them" and "appease"
> and other drivel would have their mothers, sister,
> wives, and daughters (never mind their fathers,
> brothers, sons, etc) tear your limb from limb with
> their bare hands. Not that I would be happy, since
> I don't believe in torture, not even for criminal
> minds like yours, it's just a fact I'm stating that
> the relatives of some of those being held without
> charges and tortured, and later released as
> 'oops our mistake' some would, it's merely
> a fact to state, tear you apart with their
> bare hands, limb from limb, mentally at least,
> perhaps physically....
>
>
>
>>info@economicdemocracy.org wrote:
>>
>>>"..the Times reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in
>>>wire cages, sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use
>>>plastic buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees
>>>rarely saw daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard...
>>>
>>>"...evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
>>>years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
>>>by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
>>>investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
>>>deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
>>>that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
>>>has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
>>>and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail...."
>>>
>>>
>>>= = = =
>>>
>>>[Bush Admin]Holds 500 in Afghan Prison "Worse" Than Guantanamo
>>>
>>>In Afghanistan the New York Times is reporting the U.S. military is now
>>>indefinitely holding 500 detainees in wire cages at the Bagram air base
>>>in primitive conditions described as worse than at Guantanamo.
>>>
>>>The U.S. has been expanding the jail at Bagram at a time that
>>>international pressure is growing to close Guantanamo.
>>>
>>>Unlike detainees at Guant\ufffdnamo, individuals held at the site in
>>>Afghanistan have no access to lawyers and no right to hear the
>>>allegations against them.
>>>
>>>The U.S. military has barred any outside visitors except for the
>>>International Red Cross. The prison may not even be photographed
>>>[Stalin would
>>>approve of that ban, nice going guys!] Comparing the prison with
>>>Guant\ufffdnamo, one Pentagon official said, "Anyone who has been to Bagram
>>>would tell you it's worse."
>>>
>>>Meanwhile four people have died inside another Afghan jail after
>>>prisoners connected to the Taliban and al Qaeda took control of part of
>>>the jail.
>>>
>>>Police said at least 1,500 prisoners have barricaded themselves inside
>>>the prison.
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/27/1519228
>>>
>>>Full story here:
>>>
>>>Monday, February 27th, 2006
>>>"Worse" Than Guantanamo: U.S. Expands Secretive Prison Inside Bagram
>>>Air Base in Afghanistan
>>>
>>>Listen to Segment || Download Show mp3
>>>Watch 128k stream Watch 256k stream
>>>
>>>The U.S. is holding 500 at the base in wire cages at the Bagram Air
>>>Base, north of Kabul in Afghanistan. Some have been detained for up to
>>>three years. They have never been charged with crimes. They have no
>>>access to lawyers. They are barred from hearing the allegations against
>>>them. Officials describe the jail's conditions as primitive. We speak
>>>with human rights attorneys Clive Stafford Smith and Michael Ratner.
>>>
>>> "While an international debate rages over the future of the
>>>American detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the military has
>>>quietly expanded another, less-visible prison in Afghanistan, where it
>>>now holds some 500 terror suspects in more primitive conditions,
>>>indefinitely and without charges."
>>>
>>>That is the opening line of a front-page article in Sunday's New York
>>>Times detailing the US-run prison at Bagram Air Base, north of Kabul.
>>>The Times reports that some of the detainees at Bagram have been held
>>>for as long as two or three years. Unlike those at Guantanamo, they
>>>have no access to lawyers, no right to hear the allegations against
>>>them and only rudimentary reviews of their status as "enemy
>>>combatants." One Pentagon official told the Times the current average
>>>stay of prisoners at Bagram was 14.5 months.
>>>
>>>The numbers of detainees at the base had risen from about 100 at the
>>>start of 2004 to as many as 600 at times last year. The paper says the
>>>increase is in part the result of a decision by the U.S. government to
>>>shut off the flow of detainees to Guantanamo Bay after the Supreme
>>>Court ruled that those prisoners had some basic due-process rights. The
>>>question of whether those same rights apply to detainees in Bagram has
>>>not been tested in court.
>>>
>>>While Guantanamo offers carefully scripted tours for members of
>>>Congress and journalists, Bagram has operated in rigorous secrecy since
>>>it opened in 2002. It bars outside visitors except for the
>>>International Red Cross and refuses to make public the names of those
>>>held there. The prison may not be photographed, even from a distance.
>>>
>>>Citing unnamed military officials and former detainees, the Times
>>>reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in wire cages,
>>>sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use plastic
>>>buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees rarely saw
>>>daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard. The U.S.
>>>military on Sunday defended Bagram air base saying detainees there are
>>>treated humanely and provided "the best possible living conditions."
>>>
>>>But evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
>>>years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
>>>by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
>>>investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
>>>deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
>>>that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
>>>has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
>>>and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail.
>>>
>>>We are joined on the line by Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human
>>>rights lawyer who represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of
>>>whom passed through Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the
>>>charity Reprieve. We are also joined by Michael Ratner, president of
>>>the Center for Constitutional Rights.
>>>
>>> * Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human rights lawyer who
>>>represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of whom passed through
>>>Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the charity Reprieve.
>>> * Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional
>>>Rights.
>>>
>>>With links to audio/video later today, as well as transcript:
>>>
>>>http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/27/1519239
>>>
>>>= = = =
>>>STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA
>>>IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON?
>>>= = = =
>>>Daily online radio show, news reporting: www.DemocracyNow.org
>>>More news: UseNet's misc.activism.progressive (moderated)
>>>= = = =
>>>Sorry, we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email
>>>FOR MORE INFORMATION: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace)
>>>http://economicdemocracy.org/eco/climate-summary.html (Climate)
>>>And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general)
>>>
>>>
>>>** ANTI-SPAM NOTE: For EMAIL "info" and "map" DON'T work. Email to
>>>** m-a-i-l-m-a-i-l (without the dashes)at economicdemocracy.org instead
>
>
>




I*@economicdemocracy.org
2006-03-01 19:19:07 EST
o*t@aol.com wrote:
> info@economicdemocracy.org wrote:
> > Sinking to a new moral low,
> >
> > omarenoryt@aol.com wrote:
> > > Still sobbing hysterically over terrorists being "mistreated," I see.
> > > Thank Allah they have you there to cry for them, appeaser. Continue
> > > wailing :)
> >
> > It's nice to see that you are using Stalin's definition of "terrorist"
> >
> > Anyone who believes in torture is a sicko, but anyone
> > who believes in torture for people who have not been
> > convicted of any crime, or even put on trial, or even
> > had charges brought against them, is using Stalin's
> > definition of "terrorist"
>
> I'm just stunned that anyone gives a fuck what happens to terrorists,
> but underestimating the insane priorities of the left is never a smart
> thing to do. Anyway, continue your temper tantrums, sympathizer.


Anyone readaing the last post can see it but in case
there's one or two out there who haven't, please notice
what he does when cornered: he avoids the issue
that he has no answer to, that this definition of terrorist
includes innocent non-terrorists. They hide this issue under
the rug every single time in history, as brutal totalitarians
take over a government, they always avoid this unpleasant
fact and just tell us they are "protecting" us....

> > Anyone who say's it's ok to torture because, hey,
> > after all, they're terrorists, in a case where
> > there is no coniction OR no charges OR no trial
> > OR no access to lawyers is using Stalin's
> > definition (and presumably have a similarly
> > monsterous ideology as Stalin) and
> > all the more Stalinist too when anyone
> > says it's ok to
> > torture when there are no lawyers AND
> > no charges brought against you AND
> > no trial AND no conviction ...
> >
> > But it's far worse than even that, since
> > on top of all of that, people have been release
> > and ADMITTED by Bush, UK, etc to have been
> > innocent AFTER having been held without charges,
> > AFTER being tortured,...this isn't anyone
> > "claiming" this is ADMITTED in those cases.
> >
> > Good thinkg you're anonymous. Stay that way.
> > If you were not anonymous, your Stalinist
> > cowardly nonsense about "cry for them" and "appease"
> > and other drivel would have their mothers, sister,
> > wives, and daughters (never mind their fathers,
> > brothers, sons, etc) tear your limb from limb with
> > their bare hands. Not that I would be happy, since
> > I don't believe in torture, not even for criminal
> > minds like yours, it's just a fact I'm stating that
> > the relatives of some of those being held without
> > charges and tortured, and later released as
> > 'oops our mistake' some would, it's merely
> > a fact to state, tear you apart with their
> > bare hands, limb from limb, mentally at least,
> > perhaps physically....
> >
> >
> > > info@economicdemocracy.org wrote:
> > > > "..the Times reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in
> > > > wire cages, sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use
> > > > plastic buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees
> > > > rarely saw daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard...
> > > >
> > > > "...evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
> > > > years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
> > > > by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
> > > > investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
> > > > deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
> > > > that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
> > > > has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
> > > > and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail...."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > = = = =
> > > >
> > > > [Bush Admin]Holds 500 in Afghan Prison "Worse" Than Guantanamo
> > > >
> > > > In Afghanistan the New York Times is reporting the U.S. military is now
> > > > indefinitely holding 500 detainees in wire cages at the Bagram air base
> > > > in primitive conditions described as worse than at Guantanamo.
> > > >
> > > > The U.S. has been expanding the jail at Bagram at a time that
> > > > international pressure is growing to close Guantanamo.
> > > >
> > > > Unlike detainees at Guantánamo, individuals held at the site in
> > > > Afghanistan have no access to lawyers and no right to hear the
> > > > allegations against them.
> > > >
> > > > The U.S. military has barred any outside visitors except for the
> > > > International Red Cross. The prison may not even be photographed
> > > > [Stalin would
> > > > approve of that ban, nice going guys!] Comparing the prison with
> > > > Guantánamo, one Pentagon official said, "Anyone who has been to Bagram
> > > > would tell you it's worse."
> > > >
> > > > Meanwhile four people have died inside another Afghan jail after
> > > > prisoners connected to the Taliban and al Qaeda took control of part of
> > > > the jail.
> > > >
> > > > Police said at least 1,500 prisoners have barricaded themselves inside
> > > > the prison.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/27/1519228
> > > >
> > > > Full story here:
> > > >
> > > > Monday, February 27th, 2006
> > > > "Worse" Than Guantanamo: U.S. Expands Secretive Prison Inside Bagram
> > > > Air Base in Afghanistan
> > > >
> > > > Listen to Segment || Download Show mp3
> > > > Watch 128k stream Watch 256k stream
> > > >
> > > > The U.S. is holding 500 at the base in wire cages at the Bagram Air
> > > > Base, north of Kabul in Afghanistan. Some have been detained for up to
> > > > three years. They have never been charged with crimes. They have no
> > > > access to lawyers. They are barred from hearing the allegations against
> > > > them. Officials describe the jail's conditions as primitive. We speak
> > > > with human rights attorneys Clive Stafford Smith and Michael Ratner.
> > > >
> > > > "While an international debate rages over the future of the
> > > > American detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the military has
> > > > quietly expanded another, less-visible prison in Afghanistan, where it
> > > > now holds some 500 terror suspects in more primitive conditions,
> > > > indefinitely and without charges."
> > > >
> > > > That is the opening line of a front-page article in Sunday's New York
> > > > Times detailing the US-run prison at Bagram Air Base, north of Kabul.
> > > > The Times reports that some of the detainees at Bagram have been held
> > > > for as long as two or three years. Unlike those at Guantanamo, they
> > > > have no access to lawyers, no right to hear the allegations against
> > > > them and only rudimentary reviews of their status as "enemy
> > > > combatants." One Pentagon official told the Times the current average
> > > > stay of prisoners at Bagram was 14.5 months.
> > > >
> > > > The numbers of detainees at the base had risen from about 100 at the
> > > > start of 2004 to as many as 600 at times last year. The paper says the
> > > > increase is in part the result of a decision by the U.S. government to
> > > > shut off the flow of detainees to Guantanamo Bay after the Supreme
> > > > Court ruled that those prisoners had some basic due-process rights. The
> > > > question of whether those same rights apply to detainees in Bagram has
> > > > not been tested in court.
> > > >
> > > > While Guantanamo offers carefully scripted tours for members of
> > > > Congress and journalists, Bagram has operated in rigorous secrecy since
> > > > it opened in 2002. It bars outside visitors except for the
> > > > International Red Cross and refuses to make public the names of those
> > > > held there. The prison may not be photographed, even from a distance.
> > > >
> > > > Citing unnamed military officials and former detainees, the Times
> > > > reports that prisoners at Bagram are held by the dozen in wire cages,
> > > > sleep on the floor on foam mats and are often made to use plastic
> > > > buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, detainees rarely saw
> > > > daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard. The U.S.
> > > > military on Sunday defended Bagram air base saying detainees there are
> > > > treated humanely and provided "the best possible living conditions."
> > > >
> > > > But evidence of abuse of prisoners at Bagram has emerged over the
> > > > years. In December 2002, two Afghan prisoners were found dead, hanging
> > > > by their shackled wrists in isolation cells at the prison. An Army
> > > > investigation showed they were treated harshly by interrogators,
> > > > deprived of sleep for days, and struck so often in the legs by guards
> > > > that a coroner compared the injuries to being run over by a bus. No one
> > > > has been prosecuted for the deaths, though both were ruled homicides
> > > > and the Army claims the men were beaten to death inside the jail.
> > > >
> > > > We are joined on the line by Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human
> > > > rights lawyer who represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of
> > > > whom passed through Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the
> > > > charity Reprieve. We are also joined by Michael Ratner, president of
> > > > the Center for Constitutional Rights.
> > > >
> > > > * Clive Stafford Smith, a British-born human rights lawyer who
> > > > represents 40 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, many of whom passed through
> > > > Bagram Air Base. He is legal director of the charity Reprieve.
> > > > * Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional
> > > > Rights.
> > > >
> > > > With links to audio/video later today, as well as transcript:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/27/1519239
> > > >
> > > > = = = =
> > > > STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA
> > > > IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON?
> > > > = = = =
> > > > Daily online radio show, news reporting: www.DemocracyNow.org
> > > > More news: UseNet's misc.activism.progressive (moderated)
> > > > = = = =
> > > > Sorry, we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email
> > > > FOR MORE INFORMATION: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace)
> > > > http://economicdemocracy.org/eco/climate-summary.html (Climate)
> > > > And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ** ANTI-SPAM NOTE: For EMAIL "info" and "map" DON'T work. Email to
> > > > ** m-a-i-l-m-a-i-l (without the dashes)at economicdemocracy.org instead


Docky Wocky
2006-03-01 22:31:23 EST
I bet these inmates would love to be transferred to GITMO.

The news that 1500 al Queda and Talibanese barricaded themselves in a prison
wing after rioting in Afghanistan is good news.

Luckily, they have isolated themselves, without food or water, and can stay
isolated like that for a month or so, until all the noise is gone.

Then the prison folks can doze out the bodies, and, Voila!, they have space
for another 1500.



Page: 1   (First | Last)


2021 - UsenetArchives.com | Contact Us | Privacy | Stats | Site Search
Become our Patron